Keeping People and Their Pets Together with Dr Alicia Kennedy

We talk a lot on this show about preparing for our own death. But what about preparing for the death of a pet, or making sure our pet is looked after if something happens to us?

In this episode, I'm joined by Dr Alicia Kennedy, an end-of-life veterinarian of over 40 years and the founder of Cherished Pets, a veterinary social enterprise and B Corp based in the Geelong region of Victoria. Alicia pioneered the field of veterinary social work in Australia, building a multidisciplinary HAB (Human Animal Bond) Care Team of vets, vet nurses, social workers and volunteers who support older people, people living with disability, and people experiencing mental illness, homelessness or family violence to stay together with their pets through life's hardest moments.

Alicia shares the personal story behind Cherished Pets, the three guiding principles she uses to decide when it's time to say goodbye, what actually makes for "a good death" for a pet, and why she believes every health care plan, from GPs to aged care, should ask the question: "Do you have a pet?" We also talk about the growing world of home euthanasia, memorialisation and cremation options, how to support children and other pets through pet loss, and why planning ahead for vet bills and end-of-life care can save families from financial and emotional crisis.

Remember; You may not be ready to die, but at least you can be prepared.

Take care,

Catherine

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In episode 110, we talk to Tim Booth, a paramedic and the best-selling author of You Called an Ambulance for What? and You Went to Emergency for What?  We're giving you a chance to win a copy of his new book, Post-Mortem. To enter, send us a message via Spotify or Apple fan mail on this episode, or leave a comment on our social media. Tell us what stories you'd love to hear, or send us a question you'd like us to put to a future guest. Entries close September 13.

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Transcript

DBCD — Alicia Kennedy Interview — Combined Full Transcript

"The Human-Animal Bond Movement" — merged from 0715.srt and the video-composition Word transcript

[01:51] Catherine Ashton: 

Here's your host Catherine Ashton today I'm speaking with Alicia Kennedy she is an end of life veterinarian and the founder of Cherish Pets Cherish Pets is an innovative social enterprise dedicated to keeping people and their pets together during life's most challenging circumstances recognizing the profound bond between humans and animals Alicia established Cherish Pets to support older people individuals living with disability those experiencing mental illness homelessness family violence and other vulnerabilities under Alicia's leadership Cherish Pets has pioneered a unique veterinary social work model that combines animal welfare social work and community support through volunteer pet care emergency respite services veterinary assistance and social connection programs Cherish Pets helps reduce loneliness improve well being and ensure people are not forced to choose between their own safety and the companionship of their beloved pets a passionate advocate for the animal human bond Alicia has LED groundbreaking research partnerships exploring the role pets play in reducing isolation supporting mental health and strengthening communities her work continues to influence how communities health services and social support organizations recognize the vital

[03:20] Catherine Ashton: 

Companion animals play in people's lives thank you so much for being with us today Alicia

[03:25] Alicia Kennedy: 

Thank you Catherine it's very good to be here

[03:25] Catherine Ashton: 

Ha ha ha so when did you first recognize that there was a gap in the market for the services that Cherish Pets offers 

Alicia Kennedy:oh well I've been a vet for 40 years this year and it was in those early years in practice that I rec I um started to form deep connections with my elderly clients and recognized that as life goes through its phases particularly with aging life changes and a companion pet can become more important in someone's life particularly if they're on their own and isolated and at the same time

People start to lose their capacity

[04:21] Alicia Kennedy: 

To keep their pets healthy and well so Cherished Pets was seeded over several decades of me loving my older clients and recognizing that they needed assistance in some areas to keep their pets healthy and well and together with them and so I came in to cherish pets with a question of what do we need to do as a community to support the pets of our elderly neighbours so that they can continue to be together because we all know the benefits that healthy companion pets can bring particularly to older people so it started with the oldies of which I'm now one and tell me what are the benefits that you found during

[05:04] Speaker 5: 

When you were starting out your career oh

[05:06] Alicia Kennedy: 

When you were starting out your career oh I mean I think it's it actually goes back to my childhood I spent a lot of time with my Nana and she had this very fat and feisty fox terrier called Jenny that nobody loved except for my Nana she was this classic ankle biting dog and this is back in the 60s early 70s and when my grandad died my Nana was really lonely and I just saw the difference that little Jenny the dog made in her life and when Jenny died the dog died yeah my Nana was just lost and so I think that is actually one of my earliest probably the origin story for my interest in my fascination with the human animal bond and the role of pets in healthy aging and then fast forward several decades in my work as a veterinarian I'm very community hearted I just saw the difference that pets make through reduced loneliness I mean so many people will say my my dog is the reason I leave the house every day and then they go out for a walk and then they're talking to people because dogs in particular breakdown they're a catalyst for conversation um and then we know I mean the the body of evidence behind the physical and mental health benefits of the human animal bond is just massive now so cardiovascular health shorter stays in hospital much at reduced loneliness um the mental health support that they bring through companionship so you know it's huge and we witness that every day with our own pets

[06:52] Speaker 14: 

And then in veterinary practice with our clients

[06:54] Alicia Kennedy: 

So it it research is catching up with what we've known for a long time which is great um and they just make such a difference to people's lives and then you the point that I wanna make there though too is we need to help them stay healthy

[07:15] Speaker 6: 

The pets because it can actually flip

[07:18] Alicia Kennedy: 

If an older person or a person experiencing vulnerability has an animal who's unwell and they don't have the resources to look after them then it actually becomes a very stressful scenario that's very um challenging for people's mental health and well being we see a lot of a huge amount of anxiety and anguish around how people are feeling about their companion animals and in what circumstances do you find that that those feelings of anxiety um are accentuated or exacerbated oh such a good question cause there's actually there's not a one there's not one answer to that I think um we're seeing a lot more disconnection and isolation in our community which is you know probably with the rise of technology and certainly since Covid with people being isolated and the attachment so this is generalization okay so there's always a spectrum across this but as a general rule the human animal bond has intensified over the last few decades where companion pets are now the bond is stronger

[08:45] Speaker 14: 

And companion pets really are family members

[08:48] Alicia Kennedy: 

And if you think back if I think back to the early days of my career dogs were not sleeping in people's beds they were outside in the kennel now it's actually normal and most dogs are in the bedroom if not in the bed and cats too so I tend to talk a lot about dogs but this also applies for cats I don't really have much to do with other pets

[09:08] Speaker 6: 

But you can certainly say that

[09:11] Alicia Kennedy: 

But you can certainly say that you know definitely birds bring companionship to a lot of people um and a lot of the you know exotics like rabbits and Guinea pigs so there is this shift with the role of pets in people's lives we attached to that we're also seeing a a rising anxiety generally in the community across all age groups

[09:40] Speaker 6: 

And people are worrying more and when it comes to being a pet owner

[09:42] Alicia Kennedy: 

And when it comes to being a pet owner and we you know our organization is called Cherished Pets because it's from the heart we really cherish our animals we just love them so much and so there's a lot of fear about

[10:00] Catherine Ashton: 

What will I do if something happens to my pet I think hope is in the hab the human animal bond there is hope there because of the power of the human animal bond to connect people and I think it's transformational to society but in order for the human animal bond to reach its promise and its potential we need to look after it which means looking after the animals to keep them healthy and well and then keeping them together with their human and looking after the human too so that's where that multidisciplinary care team so at Cherished Pets Foundation

[10:40] Alicia Kennedy: 

Which is our charity uh we have the Hab care team so you'll hear me talk about Hab which is human animal bond everything's Hab um so the Hab care team is a multidisciplinary team so you've got your community vet nurse you've got your social worker human support professional and then we have our uh community of volunteers who need coordination so we've got program support volunteer management and our program manager is an OT an occupational therapist so you've got this multidisciplinary lens around the things that come up around the human animal bond and you know I like I like illustrating what I'm trying to say with stories and I'm always remembering the most recent stories so just in the past week I I have responded to what would have been one of the most challenging end of lives that I've had and I I came out of that thinking gosh I'm really pleased that wasn't a younger vet because I had to pull on all of my experience and wisdom but the human was um very isolated no family around her a small community through her dog activities and her world was her two dogs and through a whole sequence of tragic events her six year old dog had to be euthanized and she was distraught and to the point that she went into suicidal ideation and it's knowing how to support people because as a vet that's not the skill set of a vet and vets care so much vet veterinary teams care so much you know I often think the receptionists who are on the front line of a vet practice they carry a lot they deal with a lot they cop a lot uh we all care so much about the animals and the the pets and their people and having that next layer of buffer of resources and support around the human animal bond is critically important so that we can give people the support that they need um so the hope comes in the changing in the system okay so you asked me about what I saw on the Churchill Fellowship I saw so many wonderful things and there's you know exciting developments overseas in this veterinary social work space and veterinary social work is a an emerging field in the social work profession that it was first it's about 20 years old came out of the university of Tennessee I got to go there and meet with the team they have a college of veterinary social work but it doesn't have to be restricted to the social worker which I mentioned earlier and so the hope for me is seeing this emerging field around we're calling them human animal bond practitioners so they're professional people who can support the human animal bond from the human side and the animal side there's a lot of hope in that and and my ambition now I'm out I'm on a little bit of a Chris I'm 61 I'm gonna be 62 in December but you know it's like I really wanna see the human animal bond embedded in the human health system whether it's across aged care or disability mental health uh domestic violence and homelessness they're the main groups that we support through our Have Care service but I think that's where the hope lies that when we can what does that look like in practice it means that your GPS and your human health care professionals are asking people do you have a pet at home tell me about your pet have the name of that pet on their record and what is the plan around the pet and I know Catherine with the work that you're doing with critical info around you know death planning and uh things like that we need to be incorporating our animals into our end of life planning and at Cherished Pets every person on our home care assistance project that we run through our charity they have an emergency care plan so that there is a plan there that if if I have to go off to hospital and I've got no one else at home what's gonna happen to my pet so you know um we regularly deal with clients who need to be hospitalized whether it's mental health or an older person that's had a fall and broken their hip and having that plan in place to look after my pet whether it's temporary or permanent is essential to our own peace of mind and you know when I talk to people when they reflect about the difference our service makes to them it's like it's given me peace of mind that if something happens to me I know that my buddy is gonna be loved and looked after yeah and it is so important because on the flip side of that you know I've heard stories previously where people have left emergency and receiving care and the treatment that they need because they don't have a care plan in place for their pet and discharge themselves yeah like that that that happens and some of my

[16:25] Catherine Ashton: 

You know I've got so many stories but some of my early uh experiences with clients that made me realize

[16:34] Alicia Kennedy: 

That made me realize I needed to do something about this problem which is um you know who's gonna look after my pet if something happens to me

[16:42] Catherine Ashton: 

I remember this older client Frank I just loved Frank and he would come into the clinic this is back in the days when I just worked in general practice

[16:51] Alicia Kennedy: 

When I just worked in general practice he would come into the clinic every week and he had this Jack Russell terrier who was as fit as a fiddle but Frank needed a reason to bring uh Jack we'll call him Jack into the clinic and it was really to have a chat so coming up to the vet clinic was just Frank's um activity so we'd weigh Jack and the you know the the nurses on reception would always indulge a chat talk about the football I remember I always had to be up with the football score because he loved to talk about the football and then so we develop as as veterinarians in the community we developed a relationship with Frank that was really special and then he started confiding in me that he knew he was unwell and he wasn't gonna tell his doctor and he wasn't gonna tell his family because he was worried about what would happen to Jack and I said well we need to fix that so we need to find a way that we can look after Jack and you you trust us to do that so there's huge relationship in here um so that you go and get yourself well and then we get you back together again and you know that was a story that seeded this idea of creating a community service that did the emergency care plans and the respite care yep you know the thing that strikes me about something you said earlier in relation to how our our bonds with our our pets have increased over time I I we recently had hard rubbish here and I saw one or two kennels on on the side of the road and I thought my dog wouldn't know what a kennel looked like because exactly what you said you know my pet my dog and my cat are both you know inside sleep on the bed well let's be honest they sleep wherever they damn well want um but it is a common thing so when they and they are part of your family so if there is no other family around and no other support network

[19:00] Catherine Ashton: 

It does rely heavily on the relationship you build isn't it and that's true so much so oh so much so and so years ago someone said to me my dog uh how did he put it I I he doesn't live in my house I live in his kennel hahaha

[19:20] Alicia Kennedy: 

I've never forgotten that he was this big Rottweiler um and he just had the run of the place like he was actually a very naughty dog he lived with this man who was on his own and I can't even remember the name of the dog now it was years ago but it's like you know he doesn't

[19:40] Catherine Ashton: 

You know he doesn't he doesn't live in my house I live in his kennel um I I know I know this and I'm passionate about it and it comes through in my energy that the human animal bond and companion pets are just so powerful to connect community and it was always my hope with cherished pets

[20:00] Alicia Kennedy: 

And it was always my hope with cherished pets to build community around the human animal bond and it does it on its own so through our particularly through our uh foundation Cherish Pets Foundation through our Home Care Assistance Program so the Home Care Assistance Program is exactly what it sounds like it's providing assistance for pets in the home and we have incredible volunteers and we match them with um elderly residents and people living with a disability and the majority of our volunteers do dog walking okay but it's so much more than just turning up and walking a dog usually there's a cup of tea in there and a chat and you know we even had one client where her dog didn't want to walk but the volunteer would still go and have a chat and a cup of tea so these friendships develop in there we also have our community vet nurse who does the home visits to make sure that the uh the well being and the health of the pet is being maintained depending on what the needs are the volunteers also transport pets to the vet or to the groomer or to um well mainly for those things to the vet and the groomer um but the other key thing there is if something if the elderly person needs to go into hospital or whatever there's a there are volunteers that look after the pets too what we have seen so cherish pets foundations 11 years old this year is we have got friendships that started 10 years ago and the dog has long gone right but the friendships are sustaining and it it's building community around animals and there's so much hope in that too like I get very excited about the power of this type of community hearted service to connect people and it's not just the elderly people that are receiving the service this gives meaning and purpose for a lot of our volunteers we have one volunteer who I remember saying if it wasn't for cherished pets she probably wouldn't leave her house and she walks that dog four times a week and she comes to our if we have a little morning tea or something so it's really there's something about pets where we don't feel judged by them they're an anchor they're a commonality in fact I talk about this a lot I talk a lot um being an end of life veterinarian we go into people's homes and I go in so we're in on the Bellarine Peninsula just outside Ocean Grove um and we're in the Geelong region so we cover Ocean Grove the Bellarine and the Geelong region I go into homes across the community so I often describe them as the the cleanest whitest homes up on the hill with a beautiful view you know and 20 minutes north you're you're in a hoarder's house and a completely different home environment and the one there's very few things that are constant in our society the human animal bond is one of them and I can tell you now that the the love between a human and an animal is the same in that White House on the hill to the hoarder's house in the northern suburbs and there's an opportunity in that and this ties back to my Churchill Fellowship and now this year I'm doing a Kenneth Myer Innovation Fellowship with a very clear goal to look at how we can expand the human animal bond support services outside of our region because of the magic that we've created here and I think um when it comes to funding and the way society operates we live in silos we've got aged care here and disability and mental health and homelessness and domestic violence and all all the others and I'm like well actually hang on the human animal bond is across everything and when we do grant applications and you have to tick a box and you're only allowed to tick one box what box do you think I tick when when we've got a you know is this funding for aged care housing family domestic violence uh disability mental health which which box do you think I tick out of that selection I would say mental health

[24:48] Catherine Ashton: 

Cause it's probably the broadest love see 10 out of 10 it is the umbrella it's actually mental health is across all of it and a very um I have a particular interest in older women

[25:00] Alicia Kennedy: 

Vulnerability in older women because one of our sort of uh very common profile client is uh over 55 often single has has had a history perhaps of domestic family violence living on the smell of an oily rag cause they don't have much super because they raised the family or whatever often estranged from their family often with some sort of chronic condition and then mental health you know anxiety and so you can't that's not one box and so until our society can shift around the role of the human animal bond and support so my vision is very clear and it hasn't changed in 10 years so my vision is a world where the human animal bond is is recognized valued and supported for the vital role it plays in healthy individuals connected communities and a thriving society yeah I love that yes I love it too that's why I get out of bed every morning because it is like I I think I you know I'm a little bit of a I I can't talk about much else but I just think in so many ways the human animal bond is the answer to all the problems and of course it's not but that's my bubble but I think if we invest in the human animal bond we can actually really see some Great Society changes which includes supporting our veterinary teams cause you need vets I I'll say to people can you imagine a society without companion animals and I go oh God no I'm like can you imagine a society without vets oh absolutely not because we love our vets cause we need our vets to keep our pets healthy I'm not even talking about horses and and farm animals cause that's not my world but there's a whole conversation there too and there's been a lot of conversation and discussion and research on this uh on the public good of vets because when it comes to government support and society support animal welfare and vets are over here and then all the human health stuff is over here and I'm trying to bridge that dog because it just wasn't time um but because he was the owner you know the owner gives consent there was that sense that I had to never again and actually you don't have to you can say no it's not aligning to my values and I don't believe it's the right thing to do but I do know then that they'll just go and find somebody that will do it and it was life was different then and to be honest a Labrador back then 12 to 13 was old but it it that was I really suffered from performing that euthanasia so when I started euthanasia end of life as a dedicated service my guiding principles I've got three things one is that the condition is terminal okay we know that this animal is dying now aging is terminal too so there's that geriatric care of our older dogs where it's mobility and cognitive decline and quality of life decline so they're dying for some reason but of course we see a lot of younger dogs with cancer and other conditions too the second one is that the sufferings becoming irreversible so we're running out of options to maintain quality of life so I don't believe in quantity of life for the sake of it so my 21 year old cat her quality of life is still really good and she's thriving but as soon as she starts becoming miserable or whatever then you know when the suffering becomes um we can't manage it anymore whether it's pain or discomfort from whatever the condition is the third one I think is really important and it's a it's about the human animal bond it's actually what is this human's capacity to cope with what's happening with their pet and to provide for their pet's changing needs because I have seen animals suffer because people can't provide for the changing needs or even worse people who won't let go okay that's too common where people have got such an attachment to their pet that they're allowing that pet to suffer because they don't wanna lose their pet and I don't approach those conversations with judgment I approach those conversations with an understanding of how important this bond is and how scared people are to lose their pet so it's around preparing people and having a plan and and being brave to have the conversations about preparing for the end of my cherished pet's life but those three guiding principles really anchor me um to it to it in that decision making process and then the question around planning for a good death well I will talk to people about that and you know most of the time death doesn't come suddenly most of the time there's a period of time that we know it's on the horizon and that might be tomorrow or that might be in two years time but we we start the conversation and yeah I'm thinking of one in particular where it was an older groodle golden retriever poodle cross she was 15 she's been very sick on and off she had Cushings she had arthritis and mobility issues her quality of life was declining we made the decision that sooner is better than later that's a really important point to make people regret waiting too long but there's a saying in the end of life that world better a month too early than a month too late and so I said to this client how do you want her last day to be well they wanted to go to the beach and have an ice cream you know and all those treats at the end of life are great but you also don't want to give them vomiting and diarrhea so you kind of pace it but um she had a specific wish that it was a sunny day so we literally looked at the weather forecast and we chose the Tuesday because the weather was gonna be lovely and she wanted to help her dog pass in the garden so one of the things with uh home euthanasia ages and end it planned end of lives which aren't always possible in emergency scenarios and I get that but most of the time there's some planning that there's choice uh I have a saying that you know every pet deserves a good death and every person deserves choice in how they say goodbye so a lot of the requests obviously are at home but we've certainly done them at the beach and in all sorts of places in the garden or in in the house on the bed I've I've all sorts of places definitely letting the pet have some choice about where they wanna be and then the process is peaceful pain free in the comfort of their favourite place and surrounded by the people that they love yep so that's how a good death can be when there's some planning and and discussion around it yep and is this service available throughout Australia like how do you find someone who can support you with this sort of choices yeah look it's it's actually beautiful that there is there has been a real uh increase in the number of compassionate home euthanasia services available all over the world but in Australia um there's most areas now you can

[33:30] Catherine Ashton: 

You would Google compassionate home pet euthanasia um or most vets now will be able to recommend someone so it's there there's quite a few there's some big companies now that are national in their outreach so rest your paws and um the kindest goodbye so Sunset Vets in also is another one who I really advocate for because they're actually independently uh

[34:00] Alicia Kennedy: 

Because they're actually independently uh owned so there are lots of options for home euthanasias and it's yeah I feel sad sometimes when people say oh I didn't know that was an option yep they're very special it's a sacred time and then moving on to memorialization and cremation like how do you and and what are the options now nowadays for people when it comes to body disposal and memorialization for their their animal friends yeah look it's a big industry now yeah so there are lots of options so cremation is pretty much routine um people do still bury their pets but less often uh and certainly it's way easier to bury a cat at home than it is a dog um depending on the size

[35:00] Catherine Ashton: 

And technically I think you're not meant to um particularly if they've been euthanized so there's concerns around impact on the environment with burials so most people choose cremation and there's usually the option of communal cremation which is the more affordable option where pets are cremated uh together and you don't get the ashes back I would say at least 50 to 60% of people now choose private cremation

[35:30] Alicia Kennedy: 

Individual cremation where they get their pet's ashes back and there is a huge huge range of options from paw prints to fur clippings to jewellery um and then obviously the receptacles for the ashes um so that whole memorabilia in a way there's a I feel it's a little bit over the top there's too much choice for people most people go with the simplest which is the scattertin or a wooden box or a lovely urn and it's a really important part of healthy bereavement so you think about the day that the pet dies you most of the time euthanasia but also there's natural death the pet is then collected and taken for cremation and it's usually about a 7 to 10 day period when the ashes come back and I often liken that to the death and the funeral in people so bringing the ashes home is really profound and it all comes back out and that is the time to do the honouring and the ritual and the little funeral at home particularly for families I think when I spend a lot of time with parents with children asking me what what do we do about the kids and I the death of a pet is such a life opportunity for a family um for a lot of children it's their first experience with death and so it is a learning opportunity and the way the parents talk about it and navigate it can be really powerful so that you know getting we we see beautiful things where children um will write a message or draw a picture that goes with their pet uh for cremation but then that bringing the pet home is the opportunity to have the um music and the candle burning and the flowers and yeah have a little bit of a ritual around it because there is such a a emptiness at times when you return home and the pets no longer in the house yes it can be really hard and then there's always the individual response to my pet's belongings so beds and toys and food bowls there's everyone's different in that regard some people just wanna get it all out of the house the day the pet dies other people

[38:20] Catherine Ashton: 

Like to have their pet's belongings around them and then of course there's always the conversation around the other animals in the household the companion pets and how to involve them and you know I'm a great believer in giving companion pets the opportunity to be present

[38:40] Alicia Kennedy: 

Maybe not through the actual euthanasia but to have the opportunity to come and sniff their friend goodbye um and you see a a whole variety of responses but I think they definitely know and they definitely grieve and so sometimes keeping their companion pets bed there becomes an opportunity for them to still have the scent of their um lost pet around them for the companion animal did that make sense yep oh totally yep totally yep I've I've witnessed oh I've witnessed some really amazing things I remember this little whippet who really

[39:24] Catherine Ashton: 

Really was at the end of her life and really needed to go and they had a Siamese cat and after this little dog died she was really tiny this dog

[39:36] Alicia Kennedy: 

She was only about 6 kilos she was curled up on her bed on the master bed but she was in her bed and the cat came in and just came in and it sniffed and it poured

[39:48] Catherine Ashton: 

And it sniffed and it poured and then it just curled itself up next to its little that was really like Whoo and then you you just it's so important to allow time and space

[40:00] Alicia Kennedy: 

For those moments hmm really important not to rush things end bereavement support because as you as we're both sort of tearing up a little bit here with that that story it really impacts you it does and I think on the hope side there is a lot more recognition of pet loss as true bereavement you've lost a family member it doesn't matter whether that's a human or non human family member a lot more workplaces are are are receptive to bereavement leave and things like that

[40:45] Catherine Ashton: 

So people do need to on their bereavement journey and great as you would know grief is different for everyone there's no right or wrong way to grieve and that process starts

[41:00] Alicia Kennedy: 

In that anticipatory grief phase so I think in in the hopeful world where pets have a beautiful good death that often leans into a healthier bereavement time um and it's knowing how to access support if you need it so at Cherished Pets we have our care team with the foundation and if there's if somebody's got concerns then they can have a chat to our social workers so that's a big part of veterinary social work is supporting people through grief and loss and there does come a time with a small number of people where they they need additional support so then it's referral there's a couple I mean I have a couple of uh pet bereavement counsellors who I will refer people to who are very good at that or if there's not one available there's certainly remote services a website called people and Their Pets has a list of bereavement counsellors Sunset Vets has a support program um but if none of those are lining up talking to your GP and getting a referral my experience now compared with a couple of decades ago is that a lot of psychologists and counsellors are a lot more tuned in to pet bereavement and you know the worst thing you can say was he was just a dog like you just anyone listening to this you just don't say he was just a dog it's just not okay yeah and what are some of the other things that in your experience probably best that we don't do when it comes to someone who has just lost a pet well the language is what you say to people so I think it's what you do

[43:00] Catherine Ashton: 

So I think it's what you do do is knowledge that grief is different for everyone and it's very individual what you don't do is say well he was just a dog get over it um I think yeah you don't dismiss it as being something really profound in people's lives

[43:20] Alicia Kennedy: 

Profound in people's lives and you get a full spectrum of people some people are fine most people are fine they have very individual ways of grieving and processing it I think it's more when we've got you see a lot more people particularly those who are isolated who really do struggle and disenfranchised grief is is a very real issue with pets too so what you don't do is dismiss it and and um pretend that it's not happening and do you think that as we see an increase in companion animals that our need to be aware of that and and be sensitive to that will also increase over time as well I think so I mean like I said earlier Pet Parade mentally there's a lot more um accept it now um

[44:20] Catherine Ashton: 

Giving people the space I mean I I think workplaces really do play a role here I remember a client this is actually quite this is probably 10 years ago and so this is before Covid before we were zooming and used to working from home um

[44:40] Alicia Kennedy: 

She her dog was diagnosed with a terminal illness but it was gonna be like 6 months and he needed he had extra um needs and needed he he actually had oesophagus so he needed to be fed regularly small amounts of food and he just couldn't be left for long periods her company was so ahead of its time because they actually this is before Covid set her up with an office at home so that she could work from home and be there with her dog until he died and and be able to support him and and like that's just incredible so more of that and uh you know I think as the human animal bond becomes more recognized for its value and its role in healthy thriving communities and uh society then that pet bereavement peace is just gonna be like human loss and so with the new fellowship that you have coming up what do you hope to to learn to to expand your model so I feel very blessed so the Kenneth Myer Innovation Fellowship is offered to three Australians every year to advance an innovation that can improve Australian society

[46:00] Catherine Ashton: 

An innovation that can improve Australian society I'm very excited that this year two of the recipients are vets which I think going back to my earlier conversation with you about the role of vets in healthy thriving societies I think it's great to see that vets are are present and the third one um she's a specialist a special needs dentist so supporting people with a disability with their dentistry so myself relationship is very much around in bedding the human animal bond into the human health

[46:30] Alicia Kennedy: 

In bedding the human animal bond into the human health the public health system and there's different ways of doing that but having an accessible human animal bond support service that sits at that bridge between animal welfare and veterinary services and all the human health cares and community support services um so it's pretty much looking at what we've been doing here in the Geelong region how that might be scaled or piloted in another region so there's some activity there uh it's around how we train and support veterinary teams to better understand the social issues that impact us in practice there's been some really good research around the impact of um social determinants of health on animal welfare that really justifies the fact that having social services around the human animal bond has a bottom line benefit back to the community and a bottom line economic benefit because when we're supporting the health of people and supporting older people to stay independent in the community that actually has a a cause at the end of the day the government's just they're mainly interested in the economic benefit and there is there's a social return on investment I think working within the veterinary uh profession around this issue of accessible affordable care and how we can I I talk about a funding bucket to provide vet Bill assistance for eligible people you have to be very careful that there's an eligibility process that you just don't open up floodgates cause it's a struggle for a lot of people um so there's a lot of work to do and my very specific goal and I don't know who's listening to your podcast but I have a very clear goal that home pet care services will be on the drop down menu on the my Aged Care website so that in the in the aged care system care of pets in the home as well as in residential settings is recognised as how we support older people for healthy ageing yep I love that yes ha ha it's like connect me to all the right people I mean that that advocacy piece is is

[49:00] Speaker 14: 

That advocacy piece is is a big part of what I'll be doing over the next 12 months but you clearly you clearly are are

[49:10] Alicia Kennedy: 

Are seeing and hearing those examples every day of the the woman that you mentioned that is the volunteer that the only reason why she gets out of bed is she is

[49:20] Catherine Ashton: 

She goes to walk this dog and she wouldn't she does that 4 days a week yeah and you think of the health benefit and the impact on that to you know her own health and well being but those that ripple effect it's it's um it's a really beautiful vision to have and and the science is backing it

[49:40] Speaker 15: 

So yeah I've literally just submitted a my 20,000 word report for my Churchill Fellowship so you know if anyone's intrigued with this conversation

[49:50] Catherine Ashton: 

And wants to follow up and be a part of the movement um my Social Media Handles is Social Hearted Vet

[50:00] Alicia Kennedy: 

And the report will be published in September late August September and I also have a substack where I'll be doing more writing about you know pulling it apart but yeah it it is a movement there's a lot of activity in Australia um a lot of services popping up in the human animal bond social support space and they're needed particularly around you know domestic violence and homelessness we haven't really talked about that it's it's a whole other conversation but yeah join the movement and um support the charities that are working in this space I I talk about my funding bucket and I'm trying to get we need a lot of money in there in in the funding bucket to support the human animal bond so a lot of what I do is talk to people about tapping into uh funding sources yeah including the government philanthropy industry uh you know private donors bequests all of it I think it's not one it's it's not one person's problem we all play a role we 70% of Australians love and cherish their pets many Australians struggle to look after their pets so when people struggle animals suffer so if you love animals and you love people then the human animal bond is something that we should be preserving and protecting and enabling to reach its promise and to do that we need funding and that funding responsibility does not sit with one party it's all of them government industry philanthropy uh donors bequests those ones that I mentioned before and I think what's become very clear through talking to you as well Alicia is that that it also lies with each of us to make sure that we have a care plan for our pets I talk about this all the time it doesn't matter how old you are where you live how many people in your household including pets in your your personal planning your healthcare plan you know

[52:20] Catherine Ashton: 

Every time I speak to doctors I'm like are you asking your patients if they have a pet because if you're not you're not serving the best interests of your patient um but also while we're in this crisis around vet Bill affordability people actually need to have a plan of about what they can spend

[52:40] Alicia Kennedy: 

So I advocate for insurance cause it provides some relief but a lot of people even insurance isn't affordable I've got 3 dogs two of them are insured and I'm very relieved to have them insured um so if that's an option that's a good option but you also need to have a plan for a crisis it does not take long I've had this is gonna really surprise you I've had two clients in the last month who have lost a dog after spending over $30,000 on them um through all the best care and it's exceptional and the care that we can offer them is exceptional and the specialist teams can do so much and if people have got the resources to fund $30,000 of care that's great what I see is people in that moment of crisis hanging on to hope spending money that they don't have that's the issue and some of the financial options available can be quite predatory for people who are financially insecure so that's another social issue that we need to be aware of so I say to people you really actually need to think do it's this is hard but it's actually we have to say what would you cap the care of of your dog is it 5,000 or 10,000 or 30,000 so that when you step into that crisis cause they come out of the blue we don't know they're gonna happen we've got the plan to keep us anchored in making those decisions does that make sense oh yeah because when you're in that moment

[54:30] Catherine Ashton: 

Emotions take over and you can't think clearly clearly so it's a good thing to have those conversations before emotions are actually part of it

[54:40] Alicia Kennedy: 

And I do a lot of what a lot of the work that I do now with my vet hat on in that human animal bond role is as an independent

[54:50] Catherine Ashton: 

Like I'm not a clever vet anymore I'm an older vet and the younger vets are way cleverer than me but I am wise and I'm very connected

[55:00] Alicia Kennedy: 

And I one of my strengths is helping people guide them in their decision making so sometimes people step away from that bubble of intensity and you can do this and you can do that and and then they'll just have a conversation with me so that I can help them make that human animal bond centred decision cause I don't wanna see people spiral into debt that then has a ripple effect to give a dog an extra 3 months everything's connected isn't it all connected yeah ha ha yeah Alicia

[55:45] Catherine Ashton: 

I can't thank you enough for your time today uh into the wonderful world of how you've created cherish pets and the people that you support in the the community I really look forward to hearing how we can make sure that we take what you've done

[56:00] Alicia Kennedy: 

On the Bellarine Peninsula and multiply that around the country yes wouldn't that be lovely and we'll get home pet care services on the drop down menu of my aged care

[56:10] Catherine Ashton: 

On the drop down menu of my aged care I'll be keeping an eye out don't you worry alright thank you Katherine it's been lovely have I got time for another story

[56:20] Alicia Kennedy: 

So my Churchill Fellowship was over 40 meetings across 4 countries over it I was away for 3 months

[56:30] Catherine Ashton: 

Cause I took some personal leave right and I'd done my fellowship and I'd had a conversation with someone and it's like hope is in the hub and that really I had a lot to do with Jango Doo

[56:40] Alicia Kennedy: 

And hope is a word that brings hope it it's got that vibe so hope is in the hab and that was kind of my thread

[56:50] Catherine Ashton: 

This is a true story after I'd finished my fellowship I spent some time with my daughter in Edinburgh and we went for a walk and I always stop and talk to people with dogs

[57:00] Alicia Kennedy: 

And I always stop and talk to people with dogs especially if it's a Labrador and we met this black Labrador and I patted him and it was an older man and we just started chatting to him and I said what's her name and he said it was hope this black Labrador was called hope and then he said to me I got her a few years ago when my wife had was diagnosed with dementia and she was my wife's support dog and his wife had died two years ago and he said if it wasn't for hope I wouldn't get out of bed every day and I'm like well somebody sent me that story because it just wrapped up my three months of exploration so beautifully and yeah

[57:48] Catherine Ashton: 

That story will be shared yep that is such a beautiful story I hope it made it into the report it did it was in the conclusion oh that's great I love that yes

[58:00] Alicia Kennedy: 

I love that yes and I luckily I took a photo of her I got his permission so her photo will be in the report

[58:05] Catherine Ashton: 

Yeah oh that's great and we'll make sure we include all of the links

[58:11] Alicia Kennedy: 

Uh so people can connect on everything that you're doing and following and read more if they'd like to

[58:17] Catherine Ashton: 

And support where they can amazing thank you it's been lovely