What Happens to Your WEALTH When You DIE? The TRUTH About Estate Planning

What happens to your wealth, your business, and your family when you’re no longer here? In this episode, we dive deep into the world of estate planning, business continuity, and how to protect your legacy with Shannon Smit, chartered accountant, financial advisor, and founder of Smart Private Wealth. Whether you’re a business owner, a parent, or simply someone who wants to ensure your loved ones are taken care of, this conversation is packed with practical advice, eye-opening insights, and a few surprises you might not see coming.

In this episode, I sit down with Shannon Smit, a financial expert with over two decades of experience helping individuals and businesses navigate the complexities of estate planning, tax, and wealth protection. Shannon shares her journey from working in global financial hubs like New York and Amsterdam to returning to her roots on the Mornington Peninsula to build a thriving local practice.

We explore the importance of estate planning, not just for the wealthy, but for anyone who wants to ensure their assets are distributed according to their wishes. Shannon breaks down the often-overlooked details, like how superannuation and life insurance policies don’t automatically form part of your estate, and why updating your binding death benefit nominations is crucial.

For business owners, Shannon shares invaluable advice on creating business continuity plans, including the importance of successor directors and buy-sell agreements. She also discusses how to systemise your business to protect its value and ensure it can continue to thrive, even if you’re no longer at the helm.

Throughout the conversation, Shannon emphasises the importance of open communication, proper documentation, and seeking professional advice to avoid common pitfalls that can lead to family disputes, unexpected tax bills, or the erosion of your hard-earned wealth.

Key points from our discussion:

• Estate Planning Basics: What it is, why it’s essential, and how to get started.
• Superannuation and Life Insurance: Why these assets don’t automatically form part of your estate and how to ensure they’re distributed correctly.
• Testamentary Trusts: How they can protect your assets from bankruptcy, divorce, and unnecessary taxes.
• Blended Families and Complex Situations: Strategies to ensure your wealth stays in t

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Transcript

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The unfortunate thing is 50 percent of estates these days are challenged and 70 percent of those that are challenged are successful. And I'll tell you the number one reason is because it's not at their expense. So when an estate is challenged, guess who pays for it? The person challenging the estate doesn't pay for it. The actual person that pays for it is the estate. Welcome to Don't Be Caught Dead, a podcast encouraging open conversations about dying and the death of a loved one. I'm your host, Catherine Ashton, founder of Critical Info, and I'm helping to bring your stories of death back to life. Because while you may not be ready to die, At least you can be prepared. Don't Be Caught Dead acknowledges the lands of the Kulin Nations and recognises their connection to land, sea and community. We pay our respects to their elders, past, present and future. Present and emerging and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander and First Nation peoples around the globe. Today, we're speaking with Shannon Smith. Shannon is the founding director of Smart Business Solutions Group and Smart Private Wealth. Shannon is a chartered accountant, a registered tax agent. Financial advisor and licensed mortgage broker. But I know Shannon as my financial advisor and also my accountant. Shannon works not far from me in Mornington and she actually returned to Mornington after having some pretty impressive career positions throughout the world. So. Thanks for being with us today, Shannon. Thank you so much for inviting me to join you. Now, tell me Shannon, what brought you back to the Mornington Peninsula? You know, I see that you've been in New York, Prague, Amsterdam and Melbourne. So, what brought you back home? Are you always been a Peninsula girl? Yeah, so I actually grew up on the peninsula, grew up in Red Hills, a very fortunate, went to Red Hill Primary, and I guess I was fortunate to actually be brought up in this beautiful area. Did, then obviously got my accounting, did the city thing, spent a few years in Melbourne, especially, you know, in your early twenties, and then decided I wanted to go abroad. So obviously I went abroad. I ended up spending a few years in Amsterdam. I was in the Czech Republic. Then New York City. What's not to love about New York City, five years in New York City, but really wanted to come back home, um, had two children myself and just wanted them to have that same experience that I had growing up on the peninsula and what's not to love about the peninsula. So I guess coming back home was. Really driven by my children, but also wanting to create then my own practice that took all of those city experiences, all those large company experiences for small business. Because the reality is the tax laws are the same. The bigger businesses just have. on the end of their revenue, but the tax laws are the same. So I really want to bring that global expertise into that local environment. And what really impressed me was when I looked at your website and cause I was referred by a lawyer I was using locally and he was saying, Oh yeah, this woman is really well referred. And I'm like, okay, so I checked out your website and you not only actually brought your business back into Mornington, you also built a building to house it. I don't like paying rent. So I thought, what do I do? I'll just build the building. They do often call me the accountant that builds, which is hence why I'm doing my podcast, the accountant that builds physically building, but also build wealth. But I love projects. I built my first house at 21 and I've done a few different developments on the side since. So yes, this. I did build my office building. It was the fire station in Main Street Mornington when I bought it. And no, there was no fire pole. Someone had already stolen the fire pole, but it was the old Mornington fire station. And yeah, so I bought that back in 2011 and then built the building. And we've been in the building now 10 years. So time flies when you're having fun. I just wanted to, you know, not have to pay rent and, you know, you've got to practice what you preach when you're an accountant. And financial advisor, you know, I put it in my super fun and I did all of that. So I guess that's what I, I love what I do, but if I can practice what I preach, that's a win win for me and a win win for my clients, because I can actually speak from not just theory book experience. I can speak from real experience. And that's what I think that drew me to your business and your staff. So, you know, I think at the time we were going around and meeting with different accountants and it's just so different walking into your office. You know, people genuinely care and, you know, they really have, yeah, just a, a wonderful warm lovable family really. So yeah, it's, it's a really amazing business that you've, you've set up. I feel very fortunate that we've now just over 20 and we've been trying, you know, I've been able to maintain that culture, but I've got a number of my team, teams that have been here for, you know, I have to accrue for long service leave because, you know, one's been here 10 years, many of them been over seven years and people don't leave, which is great. And I guess where I'm really fortunate is I have the team acts all like mini owners. You know, they all care at the same level of as I care about my business, just as you do when it's your own business, you know, so I think it's, they really care about the clients and that's what we try and do. I mean, client service, because at the end of the day, you would expect a lot of accountants would be all technical, but it's about the client service. I think that's what distinguishes. All of us, you know, on that side. And do you mind sharing with our audience something that you gave me a little bit of insight recently about how you treat your staff? Like, I can understand completely why they have been with you such a long time when it's a little thing such as just, you know, having lunch provided. You know, I think that's amazing. And that's using what I know about tax purposes. If I take them out for lunch, that's not tax deductible. There's FBT and all these other nuances, you know, every Friday, so we've got a grocery channel on our teams and everyone just adds what they want. Every Friday, they have a budget each week. Every Friday they order from Woolworths. It gets delivered on a Monday morning. And so everyone. eats lunch together. They cook lunch together. It might be taco Tuesdays or it might be whatever they're wanting to do. But by doing that, we've got a kind of full kitchen at the office, but it keeps the team connected. But not only that, I've taken pain points away from them. You know, many of them even have, you know, a bit of toast in the morning when they get to work, they don't have to think about what they need to bring to work for lunch. What are they going to have to go out? And also in this cost of living time, having lunch provided is just another one of those. Aspects that just saves for them, you know, so yeah, it's a really good good scenario. I think for all round I think it's it's such a brilliant way to Create the sort of culture that you want to you know, really encourage in a work environment and and I think it's fantastic So thanks for sharing that with us. So let's move into your wheelhouse and why we have you on the show. So Let's talk, you know estate planning. What is it? Yeah. So estate planning is interesting. It's not all accountants actually consider estate planning. As accountants, we're often, and financial advisors, building up this wealth. But what I've noticed, and I guess I first got into estate planning about probably just under seven or eight years ago, and I think accountants and financial advisors are really well positioned to assist. We're not lawyers, but to assist in estate planning. And the reason for that is we know client's wealth. And what a lot of clients don't understand is that if you don't clearly structure your estate planning, all this wealth that you've built up may not be going to the places that you intend for it to be to be going. Now, I guess when we get to the estate planning, you're no longer here. So maybe you don't know, but it would be nice to know how am I actually going to pass down my wealth? Am I doing that in the best? Asset protection means, am I doing in the best tax protection? I mean, why would you want to pay additional taxes, you know, when passing down some of your wealth? So estate planning, I'm really working a lot with our, with lawyers on the estate planning, because we as financial advisors and accountants, I know the full pictures. Now the lawyers are not accountants, they're not financial advisors. So we can't expect them to understand. And then often you've got the client in the middle. Who the client might understand, you know, quite a bit about their structure or not. And they're trying to articulate to the lawyer who also doesn't understand tax and accounting. So we often put together a briefing paper that they can bring to their lawyers, or we can facilitate with that so that we're making sure that what gets into the will. Cause I've read a lot of wills over the years. And it still may as well be written in Chinese, to be honest, because I can't understand the legal jargon of it. So having something like that and being able to assist, estate planning is really a really important part of being able to pass down your wealth and have it go in the way in which you want it to, so that it benefits your children, your family, how you want that too. And I think it's just a really important part that a lot of people don't think about because we all think that. None of these things will happen to us. It happens to everyone else. It doesn't happen to us. And what sort of things do you cover off in these briefing papers when you write them? Yeah. Well, we, we might've gone through, um, financial advice with the client or we've got, got their accounting. We start by saying, who are all of the people in this family? What's the family tree look like? You know, who are these people? I'm quite a visual person. I find there's a lot of my clients that are quite visual as well. And so we put a visual family tree together. I often say who's who in the zoo. What are the different relationships? That you have with those different parties. And then let's now look at the structures because a lot of people don't realize that your entities, your business entities are not included in your personal will. So you can have a will, but your family trust, your business company, your business trust, your super self managed super fund, they are not covered. By your standard will, they're not covered. So how are you managing that estate? So we will put together not only the family tree, what does that look like? What does your business legal entity look like? You know, your corporate trees, we like to call it, but who are the entities, who are the direct. Shareholders, what are all of those different owners in that so that we can actually kind of visually put that together and then actually talk about what is it that you want and how do you want your estate to be distributed? You know, some of those different aspects of that will be highlighting. I did one recently where one of the adult children talking like. 45 was still quite dependent on the family, dependent on the family. They had, they have a minor disability. They're dependent on the family. They live in a unit that's owned by the family. And when you've got someone who's a dependent, there are some aspects where a dependent who inherits your superannuation. So if you inherit your parent's superannuation, most people don't realize we don't have inheritance tax in Australia. However, superannuation, the money has been in a. Low tax no tax environment, there is a true up of tax payable when your super is inherited by someone who is not what we call a cis dependent, and a cis dependent is a superannuation dependent. So husband wife, when you inherit from each other, there is no tax or any extra tax or anything on that. But when an adult child, if they're under 18, then there's no tax. One would hope that they're not inheriting until they're quite older because you're living longer. But when your adult child inherits your super, there is about 17 percent tax that you're going to pay, which is the true up tax. It's not inheritance tax, but it's kind of this true up tax between the 15 percent tax that the superannuation fund. paid. And the average kind of Australian tax is around about this 32 percent that, and so there will be 17 percent tax. A lot of people don't realize that they inherit the money and that tax isn't withheld when they inherit it. And then they're going to have this tax bill. And so I've had a number of people surprised where they've inherited money. They've received it from say, Just the retail super funds, one of the big superannuation, they got their 100, 000. And then now they've got to declare that they get a tax credit for the 15%, but they're paying 17 percent tax. Now, if you do estate planning, and I had a client that had been talking to their lawyer and had already been going down that path. And I said, now, what are you doing with your superannuation? Because, you know, one of your children. Is what we call a CIS dependent if you've got, and in this particular situation, if they've got say approximately two and a half million in assets, you know, the personal home and other assets that potentially we inherited, I said, well, hang on a minute. You've got about a million in super. Let's make sure that the first share. goes to the adult child who is a cis dependent because then it's tax free. Whereas if you just split everything three ways, you know, the other two will pay tax on their share that comes from super. So there's some really big. Changes that you can make. So estate planning is looking at it all holistically and working at how can we make sure that the assets go in the way in which we want them to flow, how can we do that? The most tax effective way of doing it and also asset protection. And so one part on asset protection that I really like to talk about with clients is a testamentary trust. Now, a lot of clients will operate their business. through a family trust, or they may have a family trust that owns the shares. And so some people are familiar with the term of a trust. What a testamentary trust is incorporated into your will. And so you're not going out and setting up this testamentary trust today. It's the deed of the testamentary trust is incorporated into the will. And so you can nearly say it's paragraphs of the will. It'll go for a few pages of your will. And it's a kind of action at the point. of your passing. Now what a testamentary trust is and I truly believe that anyone who has children should definitely have a testamentary trust within their wills and even those without children should consider it in depending on who they're leaving it to because If someone inherits from you and it comes from, it goes into a testamentary trust. So all of your assets, whether they be crystallized into cash because you've sold the properties or maybe it's the properties. If that is left to you in a testamentary trust, you as the recipient of these assets in a testamentary trust means you have really some major benefits. The trust comes into being. at the time of your passing and that's inheriting depending on their age, because especially if the kids, uh, you might even say they don't have access to it until they're 30. If you want to used to be 21, then it went to 25. I think maybe we're saying the younger generation, we're keeping an eye on what's going on with the funds, but if they're actually getting it in a testamentary trust, I kind of say it's a little bit of a control from the grave. But it's good control. What can happen is you've got asset protection. So any assets within a testamentary trust are protected from bankruptcy. And the other one, given the divorce rate these days is not part of the marital pool. So if your children inherit your assets and it's in a testamentary trust, it does not form part of the marital pool if they were to get divorced. And so what happens when, you know, and this is a bit where I kind of say we need an education with your children, you know, with your adult children, or I actually get a lot of my clients to have the lawyers incorporate in their will that the children must seek legal and accounting advice before any of the assets are then going to be distributed to them. Now, the reason I say that, and this is why an intestinal trust is so important. So you've got the asset protection side of things from bankruptcy, even from, you know, divorce on that situation as well. Doesn't mean they can't use the assets. So let's just say they inherited. a property and it went into a testamentary trust. They still can use the rental income and take that income out each year. Once it's out of the testamentary trust, that rental income is up for grabs from anyone. Most likely what they've done is they've put the money on their mortgage, you know, potentially, or the alternative is let's say they actually received a million dollars of cash in this testamentary trust. You might put that into an investment portfolio, or they might say, I've actually got a 1 million mortgage. So I want to take that money out tomorrow and pay off my mortgage. They take the money out tomorrow and pay off their mortgage and they get divorced 12 months later. Probably they're going to have to split their money and they've lost 500, 000. Now, you know what they can do instead is the testamentary trust can do a formal loan agreement with them for the million dollars. So the testamentary trust, you go to a lawyer, probably cost you 1, 500. They do a formal loan agreement. They register a mortgage and they'll make the loan agreement. And I always say, look, structure it saying. That there is interest payable compounded daily, but it's not payable until there's an event of the property is sold. Or there is a change in the legal ownership of the property, i. e. divorce, something like that happens. What happens at that point? Something happens, whether that be they sell to upgrade their house. Okay, that's fine. They sell the house. They sell the house for two million. The loan by that time might be one and a half million because it's been compounded daily. So the interest is going up. So it's kind of nearly going up a bit with market value. That money gets repaid and then they can do another loan agreement. If they go through a separation, the testamentary trust is paid first. Yeah, wow. And then the loan gets money. So you're keeping the money in your bloodline. And trust can go for 99 years. So it's not only about your child, it's your grandchildren, it's your great grandchildren, and that's why it's really good on the education side. A lot of large families have been doing this. For years, a lot of the high net wealth, it is available for all of us there to be helping to protect our wealth. The other part of the testamentary trust, so there's the asset protection, which is really strong regarding, you know, also bankruptcy. If there was an issue with their business and bankruptcy, the other part is the tax side of things. So the income that's earned by the testamentary trust on that asset is taxable and needs to be like a normal trust. distributed down to someone. Now, if that asset was in your own name and you rented the property out or you had the investment portfolio, you'd be paying tax at whatever your normal tax rate is. If it's in the trust, we do need to distribute that out to someone to pay tax, which could be yourself and you'll pay tax at the normal rates. That's okay. But the other beauty of it is, and I, when I speak to a lot of people, especially those that have adult children and then grandkids, They actually can distribute because it's a testamentary trust. You can distribute to children under 18 and they are taxed at normal adult tax rates. Because normally if you distribute to children under 18, they can only get up to 416 before they paying nearly 50 cents in the dollar tax. So generally you don't distribute. Otherwise they can get. Up to 18, 200 tax free. So you can have a situation, and I've had this with clients too, where they've created testamentary trusts. And I had one of our clients create a testamentary trust for four grandchildren. And for her two adult children, the four grandchildren, she worked backwards as to what money would go into there so that it would earn about 18, 000. So tax free for each four grandchildren. So they're earning about 18, 000 a year on the investment portfolio, which is paying their private school fees. the kids were in early primary school. She also wasn't very well. So we knew the, the timing was imminent in the next few years. So those children were in early primary school and 20, 000, nearly 20, 000 of their school fees are now paid for the four grandchildren. But not only that, when those grandchildren get to university. They've got 20, 000 nearly towards their university or they can use that for their first home. So there's some really great planning that can go on from that perspective that I think people don't think of that. So often I'm working, a lot of my clients are in that. You know, 30 to 60 year old age. And then they're often, we're going through this process and then they're saying, I need you to speak to my parents, who their parents, she a bit older that they say, my parents haven't got that I'm going to inherit from my parents. And wouldn't it be great if I can inherit it and then distribute money to. My future grandchildren or, you know, so you've got that part of the tax ability, but you've also got the asset protection side of things as well to keep that wealth in the bloodline and it can be kept there for 99 years and you've got that. And that's why I think working with lawyers, lawyers, when they get our briefing paper, absolutely love it. I now have lawyers who actually say to a client, you've got a complex structure. Please go speak to Shannon and Bianca at SMART so that they can put it together. In, in a language and it's pictorial as well. I guess I like pictures. What I mean by that is that. A lot of my clients, if I'm reading a lot of wills and I can't understand it and I've got my background, how does the average person understand their wills? So a lot of them will go through that kind of process of having the pictures and, and then we say, well, how do you want it to be distributed? And then we draw pictures on how it's distributed. And making sure, because not all assets, as I mentioned earlier, are included in your will. So you need to create specific wills. So with an SMSF, we call it an SMSF will, you need to create a will that specifically addresses Those aspects. And so when we even talk about what's an estate asset, what's not an estate asset, an estate asset is kind of what you own personally. That's your estate asset. Non estate assets, your business, your family trust and those aspects. So you need to create a framework around those as well. And what I like about when we even go through this briefing paper is I actually also say to my clients, write up a letter. Write a letter to explain why you've done, what are your wishes for your estate? Because the unfortunate thing is 50 percent of estates these days are challenged and 70 percent of those that are challenged are successful. And why do you think that is Shannon? The reason is, and I'll tell you the number one reason is because it's not at their expense. So when an estate is challenged, guess who pays for it? Not you or I, who Might choose to challenge an estate. The person challenging the estate doesn't pay for it. The actual person that pays for it is the estate. So it's nearly like a no risk. So if you have, and I've seen this many times, a disgruntled child who may have not spoken to the parents for, you know, 20 years, they can challenge the estate and say, I am entitled to this under the family provision laws. Which is a special detailed laws that I am not the expert. I'm not the lawyer, but gee, I've learned them as I've gone along. When I've seen these challenges and working with lawyers on it, but the family provisions, people can argue that I'm entitled to part of this because I was born into this family. irrelevant. I haven't spoken to the family for 20 years, but they can try and they will be successful in getting something. So it, it really makes it quite clear in what you're saying. Like, we know that people are living longer nowadays due to advances in medical technology. We know that we have blended families. Families are not, you know, your, your nuclear kind of set up any longer. And what's interesting with what I am hearing you say is, it's not just death that we need to be considering. It's how we're actually structuring our lives now and how we're living, which will dictate what happens in death. So, it really isn't just paying attention. And maybe calling your accountant at a tax time every financial year. It's really probably what you're saying is having those really open conversations with, you know, someone like yourself who's a specialist to really work out what is it that you're working for, really. Because the only reason why we work is to earn money, to do what we want to do, and then, you know, you need that structure around it to make sure that there's that framework and that safeguard, don't you? Oh, absolutely, and you know, it sounds kind of bad that you're structuring it so that If there was a divorce, the money stays in the bloodline, but on the flip side, unfortunately, with the divorce rate, the way it is, you know, you want to protect your children like that and you want to make sure that they're still going to be, you know, okay, you know, there's many other things. And when we talk about estate assets. and non estate assets and actually the blended families. And they're probably, they're two points. So I'll touch on both of those. There are, when I talk about estate assets and non estate assets and knowing that your estate may be challenged. So when we're working with the lawyers, we're actually going into this knowing that the estate may be challenged because 50 percent are. If I was a lawyer, what's the number one growing area of law? Estate. Because the wealth that's building up over these years, this is the number one growing area of estate and of law is the estate side of things. And the lawyers are getting paid. You know, there's no issue. The lawyers are getting paid. They don't have an issue with the arguments going back and forth because at the end of the day, the estate is paying for it. So you can erode an estate very quickly. Because of that, how can you protect yourself for some of that? So we have, if I use some examples, cause that probably relates more to the list is when you've got the examples. So, you know, one of my clients, estranged son didn't even come to the father's funeral has not been associated with the family for the best part of 30 years. And you've got the other two children and she was very concerned on her passing. She said, knowing him, he will. assets. And yet I've got my other two children, adult children, both probably late forties that have been with the family all along. So what we've even created on that, and this is where you can kind of put the financial advice in it. And this is why I look at it and say estate planning is so critical. In your financial advice and in your accounting and everything you're doing, we've actually even created some investment bonds that can invest at normal. And so basically that's like a normal, I say normal investment as normal stock investments along the stock exchange and investing as you would, but investment bonds have some. Special tax coating around them. It's like a little covering on these bonds, which means if you don't touch them for 10 years, there's no tax on the income, there's no tax on the capital growth, and you get the tax credit that the company or in the underlying investments. Paid at the end of 10 years, but those can go on for longer and longer. But what is the really beautiful thing about them is they are not part of your estate assets. So if I use this client as an example, we, knowing that my particular client didn't, I say need these funds. We financially modeled what she needed in super, what she needed to, you know, and she's in a kind of like nearly late eighties, what she needs. If push came to shove and she needed more money, she can take these bonds. Cause you can just. Grab them and you know, you pay the tax, but not only that, you can change the name of them. So that's going in a little bit more detail. We're happy to chat on another session on that. So it's not that there's a case of you locking the money away that she's going to be destitute and not have, you know, so there's always that opportunity, but what we were able to do is take some of her super and take some of the investment. Put them into two investment bonds for the two children, the adult children that have been, you know, around her whole life that she wants to get the majority. So we took all of literally all of her wealth and did that between her super and in there. So that really what's going to be remaining in her estate is just the family home at that time. And when they're in the investment. Those two adult children have no idea that those investment bonds exist. The other part is when you structure those as part of the estate, no one else needs to know they exist. Upon her passing, that child will get, that adult child, it's not a child, but that adult child will be notified that This is your asset and this is what you've got. And the same for the two of them, neither of them in theory will know that each of them got it and no one will know them as part of the estate. So it's really good from an estate planning perspective and they cannot be challenged. They cannot be part of the estate. And that's interesting because, you know, that's looking at it from another perspective and using another technique. But when we had Greg Russo on, who is a specialist in wills and estates, a lawyer, he was also talking about techniques that, you know, you can use that you can sell down assets or distribute assets or income or cash, I should say. Prior to, you know, if you were diagnosed with a life limiting illness, so it isn't part of the estate at the end, so it doesn't actually rely on the laws of intestancy to actually, you know, delivering what has to happen. So, It really, again, comes back to the fact that you really need to go and actually talk to someone about this sort of thing because you, you are very well versed in this and you can, you can reel off all the details, but it is very much something that you need to look at each individual person's unique situation, isn't it? Oh, absolutely. And then work out. What the sort of subtleties are of that particular family and it seems to come down to communication and whether someone is estranged or not estranged, so it sounds like it's, it's very much the fact that people need to be having these conversations now. And that's where even putting that letter together on your wishes. And so even with that particular client, you could nearly say unwillingly, but based on advice from the lawyer, and I say unwillingly, she has actually set aside 40, 000 for him. For the estranged so that you know, so under her wishes, you didn't turn up to your dad's funeral. You haven't been in touch with us for 30 years. We notified you that your dad was sick. We've notified all of this. You've ignored us, et cetera. Despite all of that, we're leaving you 40, 000. So she's got that in her wishes. Yes, it's in the will, but she's got her wishes. So if that is to be challenged in court, I don't believe. that he will get based on the lawyer's advice. I don't believe you'll get more because a judge will look at that and say, well, you haven't had that contact. You've been provided with 40, 000 where really they're not obliged to do much more than that. The other one that is a really challenging one and why you want to get the advice is also around the blended families. And with the blended families or the other aspect. So there's probably two parts. You've got your blended families and you've also got situations where you may have wills between, say, husband and wife. One passes away and the two wills say that it goes to each other. And it doesn't provide in theory for the children because it's going from husband to wife. What happens? And unfortunately I had one of my very close friends had this exact situation, which was one of the things that triggered me about 10 years ago to then start investigating this estate planning. How is this even possible? And then start really getting engaged in it was her mother had passed away many years ago, kind of quite young. And then her father had remarried now. He then passed away. All the wealth of the family did not go on to herself or her siblings. When her father passed away, it went to his then new wife who has just disconnected from the whole family and taken the wealth with her. So that would not be what her mother would have wanted or her father. I mean, he'd be turning in his grave as a result of that. So you need to look, and there are ways to do that on how to structure the will so that. The new wife still gets some benefit of it, but there's money being left. which is what would be intended, you know, on that side. The other part is also a game with blended families, you know, with the blended families, both of the parents want to make sure that they're looking after each other. And now when everyone's alive and everyone's communicating, that's all good, but things happen. And once someone passes, anyone can change their will tomorrow and it overrides anything else. That's been done in the past. So I think that's where you want to have open discussions. And I've worked with a number of blended families where we go through, you know, on kind of the briefings, we know their financial situation. We know that I leave it to the lawyers to tell me, how do you legally make that possible? But these are the wishes of my client. How do we make it possible that if something was to happen to either, this is what happens to them, but you need to go through those. And speaking of these, when you do. Go through this type of estate planning, it's not going to be cheap. Now, when you see the little sandwich board that says wills 400 will 600. If the average lawyer is 650 an hour, how do they do your wills in that? And this is going to be a bit of a shock for a lot of people. And probably some lawyers won't be happy with me telling you this, but how can they do it for that price? Why? Because the lawyers are allowed to charge if they prepare your will and in the will. So anyone listening to this now, go and grab your latest will out and you're going to have a look in your will and see if there's a clause that says, I instruct, and I'm going to say Joe Bloggs law firm or any successor law firm, I instruct to be my executor and manage my estate. If you have that paragraph. You need to do something about it. What does that mean? Lawyers actually sell their practices based on basically number of wills, number of wills that they have, because if your will instructs the recipients of the will to go use them as a lawyer. To manage the estate. Now, this is the interesting thing is the Law Institute of Victoria, and you can Google it, go onto their website, the Law Institute of Victoria, and it doesn't have to be in the will there. The Law Institute allows lawyers to charge up to 5 percent of the estate. To manage the estate. Wow. And I found out out also from one of my very close friends who had an 8 million estate. They'd had a very large market garden property, three adult children inherited in their forties, no one fighting. And they said to me, yeah, the lawyers quoted us and said it's 5 percent of the estate. And he goes, if I work that out, that's like 400, 000. And I said, well, that's ridiculous. There's no way that you'd be having to pay that. Go to another lawyer. So they went to the other lawyer who actually said, well, that other lawyer can challenge the estate because your dad said you are to use that lawyer. And. Lawyers are allowed to charge up to 5 percent of the estate. That's under the Law Institute rules. And that's still the case today. About two years ago, the Law Institute put out a notification that lawyers were not allowed to charge the percentage as well as a fee for service. So apparently some lawyers were double dipping apparently because now they've made it clear on the Law Institute website. So you don't want that paragraph in there. And I had a client come to me with their will and they were asking me a few questions and they were getting the lawyer and I said, can you send through the draft will? And it had that paragraph in it. So I said to them, go back to the lawyer and tell them you want that paragraph removed or you want that it goes to, you know, a friend or someone who's going to help facilitate. finding a lawyer and all of that. And the lawyer said, well, if you do that, the legal bill is going to be a lot higher. That's okay. Take the paragraph out and pay what it actually costs to get the will done. So just know when you get your will done properly, it's going to be about 5, 000, you know, to get your wheels, your superfund wheels, you know, your enduring power of attorneys and all of those could be, it's going to be at least two and a half to three. If you're paying. Just check that that wills in it. If you've gone to the lawyer that had the sandwich board of the 400 or 450. That paragraph is in there. That's where they make their money. They sell their business based on the wills under probate. So a lot of the really good lawyers, well, I say good lawyers, but they will charge full fee for service. Hope that you've had, you know, hope that you've been happy with the service. You tell, you know that, but there's no obligation to go back to them. So when you're choosing who's that person that you're going to be putting in there, it may be a sibling that you ask to assist with managing that. It may be a sibling that you say, I want you to reach out to my sibling and work with the adult children to find the most suitable lawyer and get, you know, get a fee quote for those lawyers and go through. I have some clients that put myself down or Bianca down to say, I want you to be that one that actually, you know, have to do an hour's work. That's what it costs, but you want someone to facilitate with that. So it's really important to look for that clause and make sure that clause is not in your will. You know, if you're paying. cheap, then unfortunately it's probably in there. Yeah, it does end up costing in the end, doesn't it? It does, yes. I really like how you were talking about the writing down of the wishes, because at that point in time, you know, they will have only had legal documents to look at, and legal documents don't generally provide you context. Yes. Whereas at least with that writing down of the wishes, that provides context to the reason how and why. Those documents have been written the way in which they have, which is sometimes like the real crux of it is that context that you need for those legal documents that sometimes you don't necessarily have. So I think that's really, really clever. And we've talked about testamentary trusts. We've talked about estates. Do you have much to do with executors coming to you when they find themselves in a situation where a loved one has died? They've been appointed the executor. Is there much that you can do at that stage, or is it really that pre planning that we need to be focusing on? Yeah, I would say the pre planning, sometimes we do get the executors coming to us more from a, I say more from the tax side, because what happens when you do pass, and this is where when you're trying to pick out the most appropriate executor, it doesn't always have to be someone in the family when you are thinking about that, because Sometimes it can be quite emotional. The person you appoint as the executor, you want actually to be organized. You want someone to be that they can actually go through that. And then also with the emotion. So I have had some executors even come to us who are clients of ours saying, I'm now the executor of my sister's estate. I have no idea what to do. And they're an emotional. You know, record as a result of it. So being able to get them even some of that support and being able to go through that, because they're kind of managing that estate, maybe they may even reach out to a lawyer to help do that. And some of the legal aspects, that's where I often encourage them to say, look, let's get a lawyer to help with that part. I'm not a lawyer. I'm not the expert at that, but I'll help you with the taxes side, because when someone passes away, you've got a few things to think about that people aren't aware on the taxes side, you've got the tax return up until the date of death. And what are the investment returns? What is that situation there? And then you have the tax return of the estate. That can go on for usually two years is when that period to give the estate time to either sell down assets or pass those assets through. And this is a gain where tax advice is critical because when you're flowing the assets through how people potentially inherit those assets, do you sell the asset down? Do they inherit them? Does the estate deem to have sold the asset and pay tax? On the asset, say it's an investment property. Do they pay tax on it? And then the individual inherits with a, what technical term new cost base of what the value is at that date. And the tax starts at that point, or does the person inheriting. You can actually have, if it's passed through an estate, they just inherit the original characteristics of whatever that asset is. Now, let's think about where that would be important. I've got one I'm dealing with at the moment where they are looking to sell a property. They're in their eighties now. They inherited it from their mother. who inherited it years ago as well. Now, I'm actually going back to the estate tax returns trying to work out because the property was originally purchased in the 1950s before capital gains tax. The property's worth 12 million now. Now, if that was inherited before capital gains tax and if it was throughout the estates just passed through at original characteristics, there's no capital gains. If it wasn't, there is capital gains tax. So, but this is where the executives can get advice as to how best Because if something is subject to tax, you inheriting it, maybe they don't want to be inherited knowing that there's a tax eventually when they sell, they might want to inherit it. No, I just want the tax paid up till that date and then inherit it. If it's got a pre capital gains tax, you want to do that. And also what about the planning? If you've got the family home that you're inheriting versus the investment property, they're both worth a million dollars. They're both worth a million dollars and you've got two kids, two adult kids saying, great, well, we'll just take a house each. I know what house I want. I want the house that was the main residence of the person that passed away. There's no tax on that. The other one might take the 1 million house and not realize underneath is capital gains. Tax up until that point that they're inheriting and taking with them. So that's where we can work really well at that point in time to make sure that you're not also creating future unforeseen problems. You know, two siblings, they've inherited a house, each of a million dollars. It's not really a million dollars with no tax. The other one got it a million dollars with, let's just say there's approximately 200, 000 tax because of, you know, they've owned the property 10 years. So they've only inherited. 800, 000. So you want to make sure that You know, the tax was then paid by the estate and somehow split, you know, so those kind of things that I think often get overlooked when you don't have a tax person and that financial advice person assisting with that. And that's why I always say that, you know, incorporating your wills, when we've actually put wills together for clients, we will actually sit down with the client's adult children. You know, any children over 18 or can be younger, but I think more, you know, when they're adult children and say, this is what the world looks like. This is what it is at that time. We hope we're not talking to you for a very long time because nothing happens, but you need to keep in the back of your mind. This is why you've got a testamentary trust. We're protecting you from yourself. We're protecting you from that. This is why we've done this with your parents. And you need to keep this in the back of your mind that this is why it's been structured so that you may forget that by that time, but you need to make sure you get advice. And that's why we always say to our clients, you need to incorporate in your estate, in your will, that it is a requirement that those that are inheriting your estate. Must seek legal and accounting advice before it is distributed. And that makes it very clear, the example you just gave then, Shannon, about the fact that the example of the 1 million houses, and you think that they're both the same, but it's not until you actually really speak to an expert that you go, Oh, I'm getting 200, 000 less or effectively a 200, 000 tax bill. Yes, you don't think about it until you sell. But then you then realize and you go, but I thought we had a million dollars each. So, and the other siblings probably has no idea. If a client came to me and said I've got the choice of these two properties, which one should I take? I'll be telling them which one to take, you know, yeah. And that's what's so important to, and that's a great example to say, like, if you are inheriting something, go and see someone. Yeah. Because I had a client that just said to me, I'm not sure if I'm supposed to do something, but I'm inheriting a hundred thousand from my dad's super from CBUS just from, you know, and I've just received a check for a hundred thousand dollars. What do I do? And I said, well. Just know that they haven't withheld tax that will go onto your ATO portal and you're getting a payment summary and you're going to pay tax on that. And it's going to be about 17%. And I said, well, that's good to know because otherwise I would have spent it all. Now I know I shouldn't spend about 17, 000 of it because I'm going to have tax at the end because sometimes the executives look, it's, I'm sure it's in the fine print of the letter that they send, you know, To know, but that's where it's advisable to get that kind of advice. But also if you are inheriting some of this money that you're inheriting can be life changing for people. Now, when you get that, what are you going to do to make sure it's longterm life changing? What are you going to do with it so that you make an informed decision that, you know, you're not just going to spend it on the new car, put the pool in. Do all of these things. What else can you be doing to make sure that you've got the tax effective side, the asset protection, but also how can you make sure that you're actually creating something that maybe you don't go spend it all. Maybe you invest it and you get a certain amount each year. You know, I know when my husband and I inherited from, unfortunately, his father had passed away when my husband was in his thirties, when his mother passed away. And so we decided to get that and invest it. And we use that for our school kids, school fees. We think that she would be absolutely wrapped to know that she has paid for the grandkids school fees. Yeah, that's a really lovely thing. And will continue to then pay the uni. So that has been how we structured it. It made sense investment wise, but also for us, it felt good. To know our kids know that as well, that, you know, that's how they've been able to go to a great school. You know, we could have put the pool in, we could have done all of those things, but being able to actually assign it to something that also feels good and has a lasting impact. on our kids. That's a lifetime impact, isn't it? To do that. Yeah. And what a beautiful legacy that she's given to them through you. Yeah. Which she doesn't know, but I'm sure if she's looking, then she does, you know. Yeah. Makes us feel good to know. And we could have made different decisions with that money at that time, especially when we did inherit that. That was now, unfortunately, she passed away two months before my oldest was actually born. So she never got to meet the grandchildren and he's nearly 20. So it's nearly 20 years ago, but you know, it makes us feel good to know that that's what we did from day dot so that that was going to put their kids through a great school. And so they're the types of things that estate planning and inheriting the money. There's just so many good things that can come out of a really tragic situation that with planning and the advice can just make a difference, you know, a difference for the future. I mean, at that time, 20 years ago, honestly, that money on our mortgage would have been Fabulous, but I am so glad we made the decision that we did to not put that money on our mortgage and put that aside to invest and pay for our kids. School fees like that now was the smartest decision we made. Hence my business is called smart, but it's funny. You make those decisions. You don't realize how smart they are at the time. But yes, that would have been really nice on our mortgage, but I am so wrapped with that decision. And that's where I think if you're doing your estate planning and looking at that, there's so many things you can do. And then if you're on the flip side of inheriting, it's not just about what you're going to do with the money per se. It's what's going to be better for your family. And our kids know that their grandparents. paid for their school fees. And I think, well, I'll come back to business owners in a moment because we, we've touched a little bit on that, but I'd really like to talk about what we can do in relation to business continuity plans and things like that. But just capping off on, on really sort of like more of a personal and a state matter. So things that some people may not be aware of is that superannuation does not actually form part of the SSI. So that's an interesting aspect that I think comes as a surprise to many people. And when we think of superannuation, like that is the largest sum of money most of us will ever accumulate in our life. So can you talk a little bit about that? And also the other way in which I think a lot of people receive money when someone dies is also through life insurance policies as well. So what sort of things have you seen around that Shannon? that you can help us with. Well, so definitely that's a really good point because the life insurance often is held by the super fund. It may not be, but my recommendation would be that you would have it in your super. But if that goes into your super, some people think, oh, well, maybe how much money I've got in super is not that much. When you add your life insurance policy in there, there can be a really so, so some people say, well, I haven't got that much that people are going to inherit. And we put the life insurance in there and you're like, well, actually you do have a lot of money that is potentially going to be inherited as part of that. And. The other challenge I've seen with superannuation and life insurance is the fact that people don't update who the recipient of that is. So I have unfortunately seen, and there's been nothing that in some clients case they've been able to do, the life insurance has been to the ex spouse. And not the current spouse because no one updated their superannuation. And so it's gone. There is nothing that can be done in that case. You would only hope that the good nature of the ex would be to give it to the appropriate person, but I have seen situations where the ex has inherited all of those and the adult children have been left out of all of that. And so, you know, it's making sure that you and, you know, anyone listening now go and get your superannuation. Have a look at if you're with a retail fund, which is the retail industry fund, which is your kind of general. So it's not self managed super. Have a look and see what your binding death benefit nomination says. You're probably going to say, I don't even know what a binding death benefit nomination is. I'm sure I've never filled out one of those. You probably did the first day you set up that superfund 20 years ago, that you put it to your best friend or whoever else you did at that part time or, or the boyfriend back then at that time, go and have a look at that and make sure that's going to the person you want it to do. And this is where we look at even blended families. We'll often say, well, why don't you, you've got your family home, you've got blended families. Why not put your super to your adult children? Why not put your life insurance to your adult children? If you've got the family home with that blended situation. So this is where you then know upon your passing. That your blended family spouse is still going to be able to live in the house that you jointly held, but your life insurance is going to your kids. Your superannuation is going to your kids. So these are the types of things that really need from a personal perspective to make sure you're checking because often people are checking them or they're not and it's coming up too late and there's nothing they can do. from that perspective. And that doesn't actually involve a lawyer or a financial advisor. It's just something that you can go and check. You go and check and you can do it yourself. You know, so that is something you can split it to your two kids two ways. You can split it three ways. Whichever way, but you can do that right now. And many times when I've actually just at, you know, barbecue chatted about this, I can see people already scrambling, trying to look up their super to see what it is. Because these are little things that can make a really, really big difference, you know, and, and again, especially in the blended family situation. You know. Yeah. And now let's remove our focus to business owners. So what I found rather amazing is that there's not a lot of information out there, you know, on Business Victoria or really anything about what happens when a business partner dies. How do you finalize the business? How do you go about a business continuity plan? There's not a lot of information out there. Yeah. So. What do we do? Yes. So there's a few situations on that. Now, if you are a sole business owner, so the sole director, you really need to think about what we call is a successor director. And actually you might be a sole business owner. You might have a spouse as well. And you think that if something happened to you, that's okay. My spouse can jump in and be the director. Guess what? They actually cannot be. The director, unless we have a successor director, successor director, your accountant should be able to assist you with that. I'll go, probably not all accountants know about it, but you should be able to, that is a document that you're saying, if something was to happen to me, this person is a successor director. They take over as director. Now they may not want to run your business, but they can get professional advice. But at least you've got someone who can still. Access the bank account because I can go to the bank and say, I am the successor director. I need access to that bank account so I can keep paying those staff. Now I know of a situation and I had the people come to me after it happened and they weren't a client of mine, but I've had some of the people associated with the business come to me after it happened. 50 year old business owner passed away, 40 employees, no successor director in place. How do we pay the staff? What do we do? How do we keep the business going? You know, and then you have to go to the court to go and get the authority to, to be that. Now, the reason an accountant would not just say, Oh, you're the spouse. I'm going to put you on as a successive director, because about two years ago, an accountant was taken to court for doing that thinking they were doing the right thing. I've just put the wife on so that we can do this. And you've actually had others challenge it and they were told you didn't have authority. They didn't have a successor director in place. So you have to do that. We really strongly recommend how everyone has a successor director. Now, let's just say that you are in business partnership with someone, whether it's an official partnership per se, or it's a company you've got shareholding. I only recommend anytime there's more than one business owner in it. And you may actually do this even if you're a sole business owner, but you actually go and get what we call buy sell insurance. Now, buy sell insurance means that if something happens to, from a life TPD, could also be a trauma event, but if something happens to one of the business owners, there is an insurance policy that pays an amount, the value of their share of the business. So what happens is, the shares in the business will go to the remaining business owner. So they end up owning the whole business, through no cost to them to have to buy, because they may not have the funds. If something happens, they don't have the funds to pay the family out. Well, if they don't have the funds to pay the family out, what does the family do? They're getting nothing for the business. Or there could be games that go on, which I've seen a number of times as well. So if you've got the buy, sell insurance. where you've got, and it gets updated each year based on the value of the business. You can have a buy sell then agreement, please make sure you do the agreement and don't just get the insurance because I've seen that and people have been able to double dip because they didn't have the agreement, but you have a buy sell insurance that basically pays the shareholder. Of those shares or units, that will be the family that the person that's passed, let's just say passed, or had a TPD event, so, or a trauma event, they get the money. So let's just say the business was worth a million dollars, so each of the shareholders had insurance up to 500, 000 to cover theirs, business owner A passes away, business owner A's family, or the shareholder, might be their family trust, gets 500, 000 from the insurance company, the value of the business. They get that. So their family is okay because their family may not want to run the business and still own half the business business owner be it. That may be the worst nightmare to have business owner A's family come in and run the business, you know, so they've actually been able to get. The whole business through no additional funds that they may not have had to buy out that family. So both families end up in a good financial position and I've seen that situation pan out. And what has been, I guess I say, beautiful about that situation is that it doesn't lead to any anger, any fighting over money and that because. Family A is grieving, did get the money for the value of the business and they're able to move on in life and they didn't want the business. Family B will also be grieving at the loss of the business partner, but they have still got the business and haven't had to struggle and financially find how they're going to buy the other share of the business. So it's buy sell insurance, but you really need to make sure because I've seen this many times. Where someone will come to me as a new client, they'll be like, Oh, yes, we've got buy sell insurance. We're all good. I'm like, and so the buy sell agreement, what do you mean an agreement? If you don't have an agreement, the insurance policy is normally in the shareholder's name. Now they may have the business pay for it. And then we put that through the director's loan, a few little accounting terms there, but it's in usually the shareholder's name. If you don't have the agreement, guess what family A's gets the money. Because that's the insurance policy, but there's no obligation for them to Change the shareholding. So they just got a double dip. That wasn't the intention. Now you would hope they do the right thing, but when money gets involved, I can tell you people act very differently. Business owner A and B may have got along famously, but maybe their partners don't. So you need buy sell insurance and a buy sell agreement. So we facilitate clients with doing all of that as well to make sure you've got that in place. Now I've actually had situations where also single business owners. have actually had in a sense, kind of a buy sell where they've had insurance on themselves that if something was to happen to them, there is insurance in place that will enable the money for the value of the business kind of to go to the family and for the business to get a management in. So that's kind of a revenue replacement or a capital replacement. So a few little technical terms, but it's making sure and we always discuss it with clients if this happened. What would happen? What would you do? What would you like to happen? If this happened, what would you like to happen? So, you know, because if the single business owner was to pass away. What happens to the business? The business needs money to put management in place straight away and to have cash to survive that there will be a drop in revenue probably because maybe that key person isn't there. So it's this insurance to have that in place can be really important around that to not have the stress because the family may be very reliant on that income from the business. But the key person in the business goes away being the business owner. Maybe the revenue drops overnight. Maybe the revenue drops over six months. Maybe there's enough in the pipeline and employees, it keeps going for six months and after that it drops down. So they're the kind of conversations that are not fun to have with clients but I'd rather have that than not have it because I have unfortunately had to see these insurance policies come into play and whilst I always call insurance, it's like a necessary evil. We all hate paying insurance. When I see It happening, it's life changing for the families that are behind, especially when most of them don't even know that they had the insurance policies, they've forgotten about it, they were never aware. These are life changing to make sure that you're leaving, you know, leaving things in a way. And look, what you want, I always say to clients, I want you to get to a position where you're self insured. Where you get to a point where you cancel all your insurance policies and you're self insured and you don't need them anymore. And you know, my husband and I are fortunate to have got ourselves to that position. However, I refused to cancel my life insurance because I thought Murphy's Law if I cancel it. Something might happen. So I'm not canceling my life insurance. I'm going to keep that one there. I don't want to jinx myself. I can't believe that you're so superstitious, Shannon. That's amazing. I'm just not doing my husband's life. That's crazy. I'm like, no, no, no. So I'm going to keep my life insurance and I'm going to keep that going. But you want to get to a point where your insurance literally has then been the biggest waste of money because you haven't needed to use it. That's what you want, but it protected at a time when had you wanted to use it, it can be life changing for families that I've seen where we've had situations with, you know, a 37 year old mother of two passing away, you know, and what happens then. And it's been life changing for some of those clients. So I want it to be the biggest waste of money because you've never had to use it. But it was there should something have happened. And look, I could totally, you know, be testifying to that because of, you know, I was with the Royal Botanic Gardens for 13 years. I signed, you know, documents for my superannuation years ago when I first started with them. And Then, I don't know, for some reason I looked at it again a few years ago, I think when we got married and I was so glad I did that I updated everything because when I had my car accident in 2019, you know, the things that came into play there was the income protection. Insurance that I had through my superannuation then, you know that lasted for two years, which was just brilliant And then it was the you know, the TPD that you're referring to It's the total and permanent disability payout that I received, you know and the superannuation as part of that and these are things that I never really thought about it. It was a document, you know, you were mentioning earlier how it was a document that people sign that they never really pay attention to ever again, and I was just so happy that I had actually revised everything and, and, you know, it's making sure also that When you look at these insurance policies that it actually, you do pay attention to the fine print and it's actually making sure you have allowed yourself enough money to cover your running costs if you're running a business or, you know, cover your weekly budget or whatever, because there may be a time, and it doesn't have to be death, you know, it may be a time where you just actually need, you know, to rely and apply for those and you'll be very happy you did, people. Happy you did. Yes, exactly. I can tell you very much so. And what happens when it comes to when you think of like a sole trader? Cause a lot of the examples you've given have been a PTYLTD company. So what about things that a sole trader may need to consider? Yeah, look, I guess also, well, even having someone that then can be, you know, and that might be an under a power of attorney and you're in power of attorney, because that's kind of covering the legal and financial aspect of things that they, you know, they're the sole trader. You know, you want someone who can keep doing things with your business and making sure that if you do have these aspects, because, you know, I've even seen situations where people have tried to sue the wife related to then the business, you know, after the person's passed away. I mean, there are evil people out there, honestly. So you want to make sure you've got those types of things in play and the sole trader can be challenging. A lot of people might have income protection, you know, look, income protection. And this is where you want to try and make sure that you've got the right insurance, a sole trader with income protection. Let's face it, the average person, they'll be nearly like half dead before they actually stopped working when they're a sole trader. They're going to keep working and that. So how valuable is that money you're paying on this income protection? How valuable is that? What else can you put in play to protect yourself that if you can't work? Because it's really hard for you to prove that you're a sole trader and now you can't, you're not working. If you're an employee or employee of your business, it's very easy to say, well, I'm not working and that's why I can claim this. That's where you've got to look at it from those aspects and making sure that you've got those types of things in place, but the enduring power of attorney is something you can from a legal and financial, you don't have that success of director, you know, with a sole trader, but that actually gives a framework to say, if something was to happen to me, I want this person to be able to step in on my business side of things. You might have someone else or however you want to structure that just to make sure. That you've got that kind of in play as well. And I suppose the other thing is that we haven't talked about, and it's not necessarily something that falls under your area of specialty, but it's also having those information documented that what you do, so other people can step into those places when you're not there and you're not functioning and you may not. It's actually having, you know, your role and what you do and the roles of other people within your organization documented so we can have some sort of idea when we do have to step up. Yeah, and it's, it's funny systems and process. Look, I started work as a 15 year old at McDonald's. So I have been trained on how to systemize my business. My business is systemized to the extent of McDonald's. And actually, I will give you to put in the show notes a link to the platform that I use. It's a little plug for him, but I look, it's, I've been using it for six, seven years, this system hub. And I'll give you that because it had been a game changer for us in even systemizing, you know, I've got over 20 staff now we need. Things to be systemized using videos and being able to write things up because people are different learners. And so you some want the video so they can visualize it, but also the written notes. And how can you use chat GPT to help you with that? So I'm going to give you some links to put in, but people should be systemizing your business. Now, a lot of people go to start doing that, and we actually, it's ironically say that we, we actually are working with clients to help them systemize their business because a lot of them say, Oh, I'm going to, or it's too hard. Okay. Most business owners are wearing 10 hats. I get that. I used to wear 10 hats, but slowly over time, I'm passing those hats to different people. Now, as you go through your business, you might say, great, I'm going to systemize just this piece of my business. And I'm going to give myself two months to do it. Don't try and conquer the world all at once, which is what we all try and do. I like to try and do everything at once. And then I realized, I got 90 percent of everything done and nothing finished. So try and pick out one piece and go, I am going to systemize this piece of my business and here's how to do it. So I'm going to give you those links because that was a game changer for me on being able to systemize my business quickly, where I always thought, Oh, but this is going to take me. Days to work out how to systemize it and to give a framework. So that was, I think I've been using it for six, seven years, and it was a game changer for me to really systemize my business. Well, to the extent now, and everyone in our office uses it. If people update the processes. As things change, cause software's changed, then we need to change something, but you're right. Systemizing your business and having those aspects, because what you want to do is make yourself redundant in your business. Have it so that, and if you do that, you then can delegate that part of your business. So I'll give you those details. I think that's really great for the listeners to do it. A business that is systemized is worth more to sell. So if something was to happen to you, And you want the best then for your family and you want your baby, your business is your baby. You want that to continue having that systemized and having that legacy continue on. You're going to put yourself, your family and your business in a better position as well. So that's a really, really important step. Well, that's fantastic, Shannon. Is there anything else that you would like to share as your last bit of wisdom to us? Yeah, look, I just think taking the time to actually think about these aspects because it's often something that's put on the back burner. Okay, I'll do my wills. I will do it at some point in time. I will do my you know, estate planning, or I've done my wills. I got my will kit and I just, you know, did that. No, take a time to actually think, what are all my assets? What do we have? How do I want it to be distributed? And then get the professional advice, see it as an investment. You know, how often do you update it? Look, you know, you update it when major things changes, but at the very least get something. in place that is reflective of what you want now and in a really good structure. And because maybe these updates, maybe you don't need to update it that often. If there hasn't been any major changes, maybe you've got new assets and you can make the will loosely enough. You know, I've had some clients that have had one child. They know they're going to have more. We incorporate, you know, we get the lawyer too, cause I'm not the lawyer to incorporate into the will that this then applies to additional children that come in because you don't want to be paying the larger lawyer fees. every few years to get this updated, but you also want to update it if that makes sense. So, you know, making sure that you can incorporate some of those, but get it in place because again, going to my, why am I keeping my life insurance? I figure if I've got all of that sorted, I won't probably have to need it for a very long time. So if I got all of my estate planning in place, so maybe, you know, it's just one of those things that, you know, I feel like if you're always going to do it and I don't know. So you just don't want to put that burden On to those that that and make sure they're all looked after, you know, so because you know, what we've been talking about is, you know, you need a lot of headspace to get your head around it. And that's the one thing that we know that when you've lost a loved one. That is not something that you have the capability or the capacity for. So it's much better to actually do all of that before you really need it. It's just funny the number of times when we've gone through this process and clients have said, we're preparing our wheels. And this has been a really, really enjoyable process and their peace of mind. They know they've got all the entities they know exactly. I think the. Having the pictures and going through and following the flow chart and what would that look like and things like that, the, you know, the peace of mind that it can give you in going through knowing we hope never to have to use it for such a long time, but it's there and it's, it's done. Yeah. Yeah. And that's it, you know. You just have to review it every few years. That's it. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being with us today, Shannon. I've really appreciated it. Yeah. Thanks very much for having me and allowing to talk all about things that I love doing. Thanks, Shannon. We hope you enjoyed today's episode of Don't Be Caught Dead, brought to you by Critical Info. If you liked the episode, learnt something new, or were touched by a story you heard, we'd love for you to let us know. Send us an email, even tell your friends. Subscribe so you don't miss out on new episodes. If you can spare a few moments, please rate and review us as it helps other people to find the show. 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