Bridging Life and Death: Tamil Mourning Traditions Explained

Have you ever wondered how different cultures navigate the complex emotions surrounding death? In this episode, we dive deep into the rich tapestry of Tamil traditions and personal experiences of grief with Nyana Tanzer, who shares her heartfelt journey of loss, love, and the importance of community in the face of death.

Join me as I chat with Nyana about her father's passing and the profound impact it had on her life. We explore the rituals that accompany death in Tamil culture, from the significance of cremation to the heartfelt offerings made to honour the deceased. Nyana shares how these practices not only help in the grieving process but also serve as a way to keep the memory of loved ones alive.

We also discuss the role of community during times of mourning. Nyana beautifully illustrates how family, friends, and even neighbours come together to support one another, providing food and comfort when it’s needed most. It’s a reminder that while death can feel isolating, we are never truly alone in our grief. Plus, we touch on the fascinating experiences with mediums and how they can offer closure and connection to those we've lost.

This episode is a heartfelt exploration of how we can embrace the conversation around death, honour our loved ones, and find solace in our shared experiences.

Key points from our discussion:

• Understanding the Tamil cultural practices surrounding death and mourning.
• The importance of community support during times of grief.
• Personal stories of connection with deceased loved ones through mediums.
• The ongoing nature of grief and how it evolves over time.

Remember; You may not be ready to die, but at least you can be prepared.

Take care,

Catherine

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Transcript

NYANA: 0:03

But we truly believe it takes a year for a soul to move on. So think of it like a bridge, one end to the other. So when they start on this side, they remember everything of their life, you know, they remember who they used to be, everything, their family and all that. And as they move on to that bridge, that was the other end of it, they're letting go and forgetting their past life.

CATHERINE: 0:29

Welcome to Don't Be Caught Dead, a podcast encouraging open conversations about dying and the death of a loved one. I'm your host, Katherine Ashton, founder of Critical Info, and I'm helping to bring your stories of death back to life. Because while you may not be ready to die, at least you can be prepared. Don't Be Caught Dead acknowledges the lands of the Kulin nations and recognises their connection to land, sea, and community. We pay our respects to their Elders, past, present and emerging and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander and First Nation peoples around the globe. Today I'm speaking with Liana Tanzer, my nephew's wife. I first met Nyana 17 years ago on Easter Sunday at Heidi Museum of Modern Art. Since then, Nyana has become an integral part of our family. I have had the pleasure of meeting her mum Kamla and her father Vasu when they travelled to Australia about 7 years ago. I have very fond memories of her father's lamb biryani that he cooked for us. Nyana was born in Mauritius. Her full name is Savida Nyana Moonoosamy Tanzer. She was raised Tamil and speaks Creole French. I'm really looking forward to having Nyana on the show and just having a chat in a more formal way. So, welcome to the show Nyana. Thank you. We've been really looking forward to this. So finally, I know it's so good. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself, Liana?

NYANA: 2:08

So my name is Liana and Catherine is my aunt by marriage and I have two kids, two little ones. I was born in Mauritius and moved here. Gosh, probably seven, 18 years ago, roughly. And I currently work in early childhood and in the education department, which is really good and something I really enjoy. And we live in Canberra, which is again, quite cold some days, but it's, it's lovely here. And yeah, so that's

CATHERINE: 2:40

a little bit about me at the moment. So did you originally come to Canberra or where did you come over to when you came over to 17 years ago?

NYANA: 2:49

When I first came to Australia, I was in Melbourne and I've got a cousin there, so like I went straight there. I came to study and I haven't left, so. And what were you studying? So I came into to do a Bachelor of Arts in languages and a bit of business management. So I did that for a little bit, which I'll go back to it, but at the moment it's really helping me with my languages, especially with education and teaching my kids a little bit about the different. You know, the English and the French part of languages that we, I've learned myself.

CATHERINE: 3:24

What languages do you know and what do you speak at home? So we

NYANA: 3:30

speak here, we speak mainly like English, you know, with the kids and a little bit of French, tiny little bit of French and a little bit of Tamil, but not so much, not very well. And these are the three languages I can, you know, fluent English, French, but Tamil manageable a little bit. And what about home in Mauritius? You still have family at home? Yeah, yeah, so we still have, my mum is there, I've got my elder sisters there, I've got a sister in Perth, but with them it's, we speak Creole, which is a, quite of a French slang. So some words are very French, but like, it's just like an African sort of influence of Creole that we speak. So back home in Mauritius, like, we'll be mostly Creole. Everyone will speak all French. But we are a bilingual sort of country, so English and French are the main languages. And Creole,

CATHERINE: 4:20

how has that sort of evolved in Mauritius? Like, obviously, Mauritius is off the coast of Africa. Yes. And then, from my experience with you, you've actually had, have close ties with India as well.

NYANA: 4:36

Absolutely. So, Mauritius is very much like Australia. It's very much of a multicultural country. So, you'll find Indians, Africans to work, like, you know, indentured laborers, merchants and everything I'm talking, you know, hundreds of years ago. So everyone brought in their culture and languages. So from that Creole was mostly the more the dominant sort of language. So you'll still get people now, like, you know, when my grandma was still alive, like my mom and grandma would speak Hindi to each other, you know, like it's, it's most people like, you know, still remember a bit of like, you know, the languages. Back like, you know, from Africa or like India, things like that, but Creole is like how everyone will speak is just like from back then, like, you know, Creole became the language from everyone moving, immigrants, like all coming up, coming to Mauritius. So it's

CATHERINE: 5:28

like, it becomes a localized dialect almost. It does. Yeah. That's fascinating.

NYANA: 5:34

Yeah, there might be, it might be one word or two will say the same, but I won't understand if they speak Creole to me, I won't understand.

CATHERINE: 5:41

It's interesting because that was when we first met you and you know how much my husband loves the, you know, Louisiana and around that area and New Orleans and, and that was the first thing he said. He's like, Creole, you speak Creole? That's what they speak in Louisiana. And, and again, that would probably be a different kind of version of Creole. Yeah. Absolutely. I don't think there'd be one

NYANA: 6:02

or two words here and there that might be same, but it would just be completely different. Dialect, I'd say. But I guess even food related, like the tomato based sort of food, like a Creole, like spices. Yeah. Again, it's quite similar but different at the same time, like. Yeah, yeah. So even food is very like, funny how like, you know, you say Creole, you think of a language, but it's more like it's a culture. It's food, it's how you dress. You know, like, it's a

CATHERINE: 6:30

lot. And tell me, what is some of the, some of the food? Like I, I mentioned lamb biryani with your dad. That, that's certainly very much in, in my mind. What other sort of things, there was those amazing fried things that we snacked on beforehand that your mum made. They were amazing.

NYANA: 6:46

Yeah. So they, they look, it's like biryani again, it's Indian influence. Again, there's our immersion take on it. I'm pretty sure. We did, samosas and like spring rolls and like little, what we call which is like chili cakes and I remember coming over one time for lunch and Rod made like what we call, I think, beignet, he called it, I think, hashbrowns. Yeah.

CATHERINE: 7:14

Yeah. Yeah.

NYANA: 7:14

Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, looks like while we eat it munches. Like, I'm having that conversation with him and I was like, yeah, you gotta like soak the split peas and you put coriander, you put cumin and he's like, yeah, cumin and things like that. And again, like I said, the Creole sort of influence on food, it can be similar and then different again at the same time. But yes, I like, I'm pretty sure that was one. They made that day.

CATHERINE: 7:38

Yes. Well,

NYANA: 7:38

it

CATHERINE: 7:39

certainly is, is a very vivid memory in my mind.

NYANA: 7:42

Now,

CATHERINE: 7:42

your dad is no longer with us.

NYANA: 7:45

Yeah. So since then, I think when they came over, I was about 10 years ago, actually. I think it was 2013. 2014, they came over. Since then, in 2019, my dad passed away from some health complications, which he had from childhood, actually. And, um, that was actually the first time I ever saw someone who had passed away, a body, like someone who's no longer with us. He passed away a month, just a very month short of his 70th. birthday. And yeah, like, you know, you've met him. He's someone who is very, very happy, you know, always up for a joke and, you know, loved food. You know, we all share that passion and love for food. He had gone to India to undergo surgery, but unfortunately he didn't get to do the surgery that time. There wasn't enough time. He, his health declined fairly quickly. And he passed away in India. And like I said, that for me, that was, I was already in Australia when my grandma passed away and some aunties passed away. And you know, it's hard to travel all the time and you can't get there in time sometimes. And, but when my dad wasn't well and he had gone to India, my mom was there with him. And when they saw his health was declining. Fairly quickly. My sister flew over as well. My sister who lives in Mauritius. So at the time, her kids were quite young as well. So I'm like, you know what? And my youngest, at the time I had one, only my first one. And I'm like, look, I will fly over and help, you know, with the kids while you're over in India. And that's just like, so happens. I was in Mauritius when it all happened. And my sister who's in Perth, unfortunately, she didn't have the time to get there, like in time, like flying there. So, yeah, so like my dad passed away, so it's five years now, he's been gone, and, you know, it's, you still think I'm the person, you know, like, at the time, I hated when people were telling me he's in a better place, like, you know, he's not suffering, but I'm like, but, I'd rather he was here still, you know, like, but then, you know, as time goes by, you think like, yeah, he wasn't well, he was suffering now that suffering is gone. Like, you know, he was in hospital for a while, like I think three weeks or so for like when he, his health declined even very quickly, even a month, I think it was. And you know, it's not nice, you know, it's not a good feeling seeing someone who used to be so happy. He would go for walks all the time with like tubes here and there, like, you know, it's It's a very, um, daunting sort of very, you know, heartbreaking thing to see, you know, especially when you've done the person.

CATHERINE: 10:33

That is so true. And were you seeing this via FaceTime with your mum? Is that how, cause you were in Mauritius?

NYANA: 10:40

Yeah, yeah. So, well, it started when I was still in Australia here. So we was all FaceTime. Luckily, like these days, you know. From your phone, like we all have a little computer in our, in our pockets these days, like it was easy. You can just call and video call. You don't have to wait for like, to be connected to like, have a laptop computer, you know, like when you're with webcams, how we used to plug these and Skype and all that back in the day. Like, so we just used to do like video calls and she'd show us him and she'd like, you know, when he was okay, she'd send us photos and we were able to connect with him at the time. But when his health declined, he was just. You know, there was, we couldn't, like, you know, he couldn't converse with us, like, we couldn't, he was just like, you know, sleeping a lot of the time, because, you know, A lot of, like, medical procedures, it's very tiring on the body, so,

CATHERINE: 11:30

yeah. And when you say that this was the first time that you'd seen a dead body. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, what was that experience like? Was that also virtually, or did you actually do that, have an opportunity to do that in

NYANA: 11:43

person? I was, this is, that's the other thing now, so, when he passed away, I was emotious. And they were in India, then my mom had the option whether to do the cremation in India itself or do the repatriation. And she's like, no, we're going to repatriate no matter what, you know, we'll bring him back to his house before we farewell him, you know? So now bare in mind, like I was there, it was just me, the kids and my brother in law was there and I had an auntie there and all that. But. You know, when someone passes away, you've got all these things like, okay, where do we start? And he passed away in the evening. So I think it was seven o'clock, 730, the time in Mauritius that evening. And straight away, here I am calling airlines. I'll be like, okay, this just happened. What's our next step? What do you need from us to repatriate the body over to Mauritius? Now, India and Mauritius, it's about Seven hours, the flight, and they were giving me all this information. Okay. We need this form. We need this paperwork. We need the body. Like, you know, they have to do, I think it's embalming. It's called, you have to do, you have to do all that. So the body lasts the flight and then it's all about timing. So like, okay, when will the flight land and when will we start the funeral process and all that? So that was the thing. Like, so for me, when that happened back then, like the, you know, the body was still in India. You don't have a concept yet that someone's passed away because you were like, so, okay, we've got to get this done, you know, like we've got to get, you know, it's embalming and all paperwork. It takes, it's not, it doesn't get, it doesn't get done like this, you know, it takes time. So then I was communicating with my sister, like, okay, we need to do this, we need to do that. You need to look at this form and start this process. And then we'll send it to the airline and then they can book their flights, like, you know, move their flights to that particular flight. And so it was very much like, Oh my goodness, like. You know, it's something you don't expect will happen.

CATHERINE: 13:48

And I'm assuming that your mum, Camilla, wanted to actually fly on the same flight as your dad's body. Yes, of course. You know, so that's another logistic to actually consider in, in amongst all of that as well.

NYANA: 14:01

Absolutely. So there was a family friend went with them. So that was her, my mum, my sister, just three, you know, cause they already had the tickets back home. But it was just like, we have to move the flight now, like, you know, and then the airline like what they have available as well. And the good thing with India, there's frequent flights between Mauritius, like people fly to India a fair bit. So, which is good if it was somewhere different where there's only like two flights. Per week. It's even harder. I think pretty sure we had, there was the flights a bit more frequent and seven hours. It's long, but it's not that long. It's not like you're changing flights as well, which would have been harder as well if there was no direct flights, but straight away. First thing I did when I found out that happened in my culture, we light a lamp straight away for that person and you find a photo of them and you put a lamp, you light a little oil lamp, you light that, and you probably know, like, you know, the little lamps that we use for Diwali, like the little deer that we call, like we, yeah. That we'll like one of these and that stays on. So that was the first thing I did before getting on the phone. And then the, Oh, he had like a funeral plan. So this is companies in Mauritius were like, you know, it's like an insurance and you pay them like a monthly fee or so. And when your person passes away, they come literally take over the boat, like they come and take the body. They will come and like, you know, just set up like the little tents. Cause Funerals in Mauritius, like, people will come, bring chairs, they will all sit, like, it's like a wake. They will all sit together, like, you know, people will come straight away, and at night, like, family members will come in straight away, like, my cousins who live close by came straight away, and even though it was, like, 10 o'clock at night, they all came, and they're like, okay, we've got to set up the house, you know, we've got to, like, let's move furniture, you know, because people will come, we'll need the space to do, you know, bring the body, you know, and all that, so, and people will come and visit. My auntie came, like, seven o'clock, the first bus she could get, she came over straight away the next day. So here in Mauritius, it's very much like, a very cultural thing, like, neighbours would come, I think, the next, like, my closest neighbours came as well, came over, and by then, like, you know, like, My mom wasn't there. My sister wasn't there. It was just my brother in law, me and my teenager nephew's niece, and I was like, God, like, and then I had my youngest at the time, she was only like two and two and a half. And she was like, what's going on? What's happening?

CATHERINE: 16:32

And so you were in Australia when your grandmother died. Yes. And also, an aunt had passed away, hadn't they? So, was this the first time you'd sort of stepped up as sort of in a matriarch kind of role where?

NYANA: 16:48

Oh, like, absolutely. Sometimes I've never done before to like calling, like my main, my biggest memory is calling the airline. I'd be like, What do I do? Because, you know, like from, I wasn't going to make, you know, the airline in Mauritius, like, it's 24 7. I was like, you know, I'm like, I'm already here. I told my mum and my sister, no, like, I'll call because They will tell me what needs to be done instead of them calling from India. So it was like, what do, what, like, you know, like, what do I do in passing on that information? And then my brother in law was looking after, like, you know, talking to that funeral company to organize funeral, like, okay, we need to like, okay, the next day we need to start putting on the radio. You need to announce like, you know, the death and all that. And we do that. And most you'd be on paper in on the newspaper and you'll be on the radio. Wow, okay. Yeah, yeah. Well, because, well, Mauritius is a small, little country, so. What's

CATHERINE: 17:42

the population of Mauritius?

NYANA: 17:44

Now, it's, oh goodness, I would say less than two million.

CATHERINE: 20:29

Yeah, yeah, right. Isn't that amazing that, like, uh, I've heard certainly, you know, when, Barry died, my father, you know, grandpa, like we, we put it in the local newspaper, but you also

NYANA: 20:40

actually did it on the radio as well. Yeah, they do on the radio. Yep. Online on the radio. And like, you know, like you'll be twice a day to do it. So there's a morning one and an evening one to do. And a lot of like elderly people rely on that because look, not everyone emerges like my parents. Other generation who gone to school and learned, like, you know, learned how to read, how to write, but like my generation, like my grandma, they didn't go to school, you know, and if they did, they probably went for like first grade or second grade, like, you know, so a lot of elderly people don't know how to read and write, so they rely on radio. Of course. Um, for all the news and knowing like, Oh, I know this person who's passed away. And the thing in Mauritius, right? People don't move around. Like my dad was like, where he is, like, you know, we've had that land, God, like, you know, the, the, my parents house, like. It gets, just gets passed on to like generations, like a block of land, probably a hundred years, you know, 150 years. Like, you know, this has been like, you know, like a family and that's for everyone really. It's very rare. People move around. Even when you get married, like my mom got married and came to, you know, this house, they were married at the time they were married 41, 42 years when my dad passed away. So she knows all the neighbors as well. Like, you know, like you've been there for 40 years. So she knows everyone, you know.

CATHERINE: 22:07

So you were the first generation to really, you and Neelam were the first ones to really move out of Mauritius.

NYANA: 22:14

Yeah, absolutely. Oh my goodness. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And my generation now, my school friends, probably half of them aren't in Mauritius anymore. Like, you know, a lot of my friends are all overseas. So like, it's funny how like generations, how they are, like, you know, my grandparents. You know, I had to read or write, and then my parents went to school, you know, got to do like, you know, fish high school and things like that. And then my generation, you know, we went to uni and then move, you know, like we were able to like move countries and

CATHERINE: 22:44

Such change in really probably a 50 year period, isn't it? Yeah. Phenomenal. Yeah. And when you found yourself in this situation, um, with your brother in law and the, the, Yeah. Yeah. Your niece and nephew. Um, you know, so as I was saying, you hadn't actually been there for the other, um, um, Family members funerals. So how did you go navigating that? Was it their funeral company that helped you kind of work out what you needed to do, or did you always know what you needed to do? No. So once

NYANA: 23:18

we've sorted out repatriation and what's happening. Then the cultural part came in it. So straight away, I'm quite sure for the first, the first day or three days, you do not turn off the lights in the house. You light up the whole house. So nighttime you go to bed, the light is on, you know, like you turn on in the main areas. Now, if you're asking what, why, I am not too sure. Like it's just something we've always done. Like I know, and my mom was telling me, turn on all the lights, leave all the lights on. And I remember her talking about it when my grandma passed away, like, you know, in her house, they stayed there and they had to turn on all the lights. So that was the first thing we did. And like, you know, the lamp, the first thing we do is light the lamp for the

CATHERINE: 23:57

person. And what's the significance of that? Is that just as a memorial or?

NYANA: 24:02

It is in a way, but also like, it's a light for them. Like, you know, it's like to, to light their way. And. The God that we pray is Shiva, if you've heard about Shiva, so you play mantras and songs about Shiva. With our lab, like you just play that all the time. I was turning it off at night because, you know, kids need to sleep. So like, you know, then organizing like what we'll need, but like I said, a lot of it got done in India as well, like the cause. that the person was going to wear. So then it's traditional, like a kurta, traditional clothes that they wear. So my mom had that sorted in India. She did all that. But let's say if that had happened in Mauritius, so they would have bathed the body. So it's like, in a way, it's like you purify, like the purification of the body. They would have, you know, bathed the body and straight away wrapped it up in like, and put that traditional attire. Like the night that it happened and they start like, there'd be like flowers, darlings and things like that. You'd get straight away. And is there a particular flower that is used or none? No. Anything really. Any flowers really. I remember the first couple of days the roses for him. You know, us girls, like we all got him like little roses and all that. And if I was really that's available at the time, look, it merges, usually funerals happen pretty quickly within 48 hours. You know, if autopsy needs to be done, they will do that, but it's fairly quick. So, usually within 24 hours, 48 hours, funerals happen when someone passes away. But this one was a long process, like. I think it was, look, I think it was either Monday or Tuesday he passed away and funeral was until like Friday. So for us, that was a long day. Like it was a long time because again, the flight, getting all that organized took most of the time. And then the funeral company, the day of the funeral, the day before they came in to set up like a big tent so people can sit on anything and um, board chairs. It's plastic chairs, picnic chairs, sort of thing, they brought all that. Usually they would have provided a coffin, but because it was, the body was flying in, it was already in like a flight, you know, one that can be on the plane. So, and by then you don't move the body, you know, like just left him in there. But mostly what we had to do, so, so my brother in law was looking after that, so you got to like find all the paperwork, like, you know. birth certificates, like, you know, because of course he didn't, they didn't travel. He only had his password with him. Yeah, of course. So you're going to need all this paperwork. So that was like the hunt for all this, you know, so my brother in law was looking after all this, like all the paperwork sort of that we need required to do all that. So, yeah, and I was, look, like I said, until you see the body, like, it doesn't sink in, like, oh, someone's passed away. And then the day the body came as well, like, you know, it just looks like they're sleeping really. Like, he had just been on the flight and the way they had done the body, like, you know, the embalming, I think that was the first time I've, you know, touched someone like that. It was like touching an ice cube. Like, it was very hard, like, cause they had to do it so the body would last the seven hours on a flight. And everyone came, like, they went, like, We have people in the front of the yard, in the house, on the street, like, you know, people who

CATHERINE: 27:31

knew. So, it's part of your tradition that everyone, it's like a public viewing where they come and pay their respects and view your father's body and pay their respects to the family. And is that in the lead up to the funeral or is that on the day of the funeral? How does that work? On the day of the funeral.

NYANA: 27:52

So, literally, when the body came, it got brought into the house. And then everyone, like, sort of, like, lined up and, like, you know, to pay their respect to him. And it was open, like, open cast and, um, everyone could see him and pay their respect. And, like, he was someone who was very, very, very active in society as well. Like I said, he's lived in that suburb, in that village his whole life. His parents did, so everyone, you know, knew who he was and I think he was very active with the community. So everyone knew, like, okay, he's passed away. So everyone came, paid their respect to him and my mom and, you know, and in that time too, there'll be prayers that gets done, the mantras. Like, you know, the songs, everyone's singing, like it's just to help the purification and helping the soul to move on. And also in my culture, like the women, when they get married, they have to wear like, like a necklace, which symbolizes like a wedding ring. So, this has to be removed, because that's like, like, well, my mum, because her husband's passed away, so she can't wear that anymore, you know, so there's a prayer for that as well for her, like, just to get to remove that.

CATHERINE: 28:58

And does it follow a certain structure, Nyana, or like, and just so I'm trying to get my head around how this works, so in the, the lead up to your father's body arriving in the home, you've already got people who are arriving and giving their respects and checking on you, and do they provide food during this time?

NYANA: 29:16

Yes, so they did, because my dad was getting cremated, so when that happens, you're not allowed to light anything in the house, and it's all gas stove in Mauritius. So we weren't allowed to cook, to prepare anything. So neighbours and family members brought us all our meals, like tea in the morning, like breakfast, snacks. So It's part of that cultural thing, like, you know, and that, like I said, by the time he passed away and to the funeral, there was a good three, four days. So for three, four days, we're doing cook and we relied on family, like, you know, neighbors like to come and bring food for us, which they did straight away. Like, you know, when my sister was like, you know, organizing with a phone, like people knew like straight away, we had a family friend whose husband passed away not long before that. And I remember she came in the next day and brought me like. A big basket and it was like, she made tea, she brought milk, sugar, everything. And she made like fried little fried food, like for us to eat. They were asking me like, you know, cause I said, I had my youngest with me at the time, like mom had only the one and she was two and a half and I said, she wasn't understanding what's going on. And at the time she wanted to eat this and eat that. And they were like asking me like, and it had to be vegetarian food as well. So you fast as well. It's our new vegetables. You eat, you don't, there's no meat. You don't eat meat during that time. So like I said, you rely so much on families and neighbors, you know, like to, to help you with things and set up. We had to take up like, you know, make the walls all be in the house. Sorry, like one, the neighbors was coming, like, you know, she came out with me and Ash's just pulling everything out. She's like, where do you want me to put this? And so you have to remove all of the, the adornments from the wall? Yeah. Yeah. You, you just, you're in mourning. So like, you know, so you. You took everything off the walls and you just take everything off and like I'm biased while on the Delphino we have to cover mirrors and things like that. I don't know why. It's just something that, you know, family, the ancestors always did. So it's like something that just carried on. We just do it.

CATHERINE: 31:18

Yeah.

NYANA: 31:19

And I never thought about asking why we did this. Like, I think it's just a cultural thing. Well, I suppose it's something that you've always just done,

CATHERINE: 31:26

isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. But I have to say that there is something in the fact that your tradition has recognized that people who are in mourning and in shock and in that sort of state of grief. That A, they probably can't really digest really heavy foods during that time. So you're, you know, it's actually adopted to a more vegetarian, lighter diet. And then also the fact that it's actually encouraged that, you know, you're not the ones cooking, but it's the community taking care of you. That is a beautiful thing at a time where you really need it.

NYANA: 32:05

Yeah. Exactly. I'm not sure if it's related to the cremation part of it, like that you don't light a fire because the next fire that's getting lit is either for prayers, like lamps or for the pyre. Yeah. Right. So I'm not sure. I think it's

CATHERINE: 32:20

something to do with that in relation as well. Well, my logistical brain, Nyana, thinks it's very practical. I think it's, you know, from a caring and a community perspective, I think it's amazing.

NYANA: 32:33

And I feel like even if like, you know, you are allowed to light a fire. like you need to cook meals and all that. Someone would have come to cook the meals for you in the house, even in the house, if they're not bringing it. And neighbor would have come and like, just start cooking. Like, you know, like, okay, eat this. Don't you worry about that. Like, if I'm like something that would have happened, you know, so. But the fact that there's no fire, like in mourning in that house, you don't light a fire, like, you know, you start thinking, make your walls bare, but it was just, we did that just in a lounge room where the body would, would be at the time of the funeral and prayers and all that. So a priest will be there, like, at the funeral and do all the prayers. So

CATHERINE: 33:09

there is sort of like a, someone leading the service, I suppose, like, when I think of. You know, funerals in Australia, I've only had one funeral where it's been in the home. And that was my grandfather, but normally it's been in a church or a funeral home. And there's someone that leads like a celebrant or a priest that leads the service. Is that the sort of same thing that happens? So

NYANA: 33:33

it would be in the house. People would get it in their house and there'll be a priest that will come like in our culture called a Swami who come, who specializes in like funerals. Cause it's different kinds of prayers, like, you know, from a wedding, you know, it's a different prayer compared to like a funeral, it's something different. So you're praying for the soul, you know, there's this word that's called Moksha. I don't know if you've heard of that word. Moksha is about, you know, it's like liberation. So like release. birth. So like, you know, cause we believe like in Hinduism, we believe like my Tamil culture, Tamil. So you rebirth every time, you know, like until you attain Moksha. So that we don't, you know, you, that you liberate your soul, like, you know, that you release the cycle of rebirth basically. So. A lot of these prayers, you know, and Shiva, like he looks after souls, you know, that's why you pray him a lot during that time someone's passing, because you pray to Shiva to take care of that soul, you know, and to help if that soul hasn't attained moksha, we pray that a lot during that time, and that goes for a good year. So after the funeral, I'm pretty sure two, three days after, like, you do like a big prayer. Amber, we had all the meals that my dad loved, everything he loved. It's like an offering, you know, you have that there. They do what we call Pindam. That's the Tamil word for it, which is a rice ball offering. So like they make rice balls because it's like, it represents like you're feeding the soul with like rice balls and like to help them to move on their journey. And I remember one of the prayer, other prayer. The priest is asking the name of like, you know, my dad's parents and grandparents, because like, you know, that offering goes to them as well, because they were the ancestors. He wouldn't be here if not for them. So you're offering, you know, for them as well. So these rituals in my culture is basically a lot to do with like cleansing the soul, because it's less technically like they left the physical world now. So you help for their reincarnation, you help with like, where they're going to be rebirth. And it's a lot to do with karma as well. Believe a lot of that. Like, you know, you believe if you want a good person, you're not going to have a good rebirth sort of thing. Like, and if you've done good deeds, you know, your next birth will be like better than this life, the previous life that they had. So you kind of like, you pray for the gods to make it easy for them to move on. And like I said, there's like monthly prayers that happens, like, you know, offerings and I'm like every month. On a certain lunar calendar, I would look, my mama used to go to the temple and make a prayer in Juna time, like, it's believed every offering you do is for the God, but also for the soul, you know, like, they're going to have food to eat, they're going to have water to drink, like, in Juna time, until like, it's one year. And if you do this big prayer, and I was pregnant at the time and I remember like it was a video call and I was having the biggest craving for chips at the time and I'm like, Oh my goodness. And you know, during my pregnancy, how sick I get hurt and I remember watching and I'm like right now and I'm like, this craving like come at a later time, like, Oh my goodness. I remember that. Quite a bad memory of it, but we truly believe it takes a year for a soul to move on. So Think of it like a bridge, wanting to be, you know, one end to the other. So when they start on this side, they remember everything of their life. You know, they remember who they used to be, everything, their family and all that. And as they move on to that bridge, that was the other end of it. They're letting go and forgetting the past life. And I remember like, I don't know, people will probably think of me like, you know, I'm crazy or something, but like, I remember dreaming of my dad a lot during that time. Like a lot, that one year after he passed away, like a lot of like dreams, a lot of things. And I said I was pregnant at the time and I was so sick. And at that time, my husband had to go away, bed had to go away for work. I suffer, for both my pregnancies, I suffered really badly of, um, hyperemesis and I was still caring at the time for, like, my daughter, who was three at the time, and her not understanding, like, you know, mommy's sickness, duress and all that, and I remember thinking of my dad so much during that time, and it's funny, like, I don't know, like, it was in my head and I feel better. Like, you know, and I dream of him saying like, yeah, you're all good, you know, and things are like a lot of different, you know, dreams for me during that one year and again, like when it was almost one year, I had a dream and I will always remember this dream. of him telling me and he was in that attire that he wore at his funeral attire and he was saying goodbye like hey and he was packing his suitcase he's like yeah i'm going away now you know and it's funny like If I dream of him now, like, you know, my dream sequence of him, I've always dreamt of him as this, like, 45 year old young guy, you know, like, I wouldn't see his face as clearly now anymore, but over the one year, like, it was like having a face to face conversation with him, but yeah, but like I say, like. He's one year with us, that's why I believe he's one year with us is finished. You know, he's moved on now, like, you know, even though I don't know, they say, like, it's all still around. I don't still remember, like, actually, that was my experience with that. What we talk about, like one year of having the soul around you. That was my thing. And like, I felt him a lot during that time. Like he passed away in a month of August and it was around that time. I got one year finished and. I started getting quite sick with my pregnancy around August, like, you know, the one year on. So, it's very like, you know, I truly believe in that, if it takes my, like, what my culture, at first you're biased, you're like, yeah, nah, you know, and after you really leave it, you're like, wow, that actually happened to me.

CATHERINE: 39:54

And how do you think that sort of affects your breathing process when you know that effectively you're losing him? I suppose a second time, like you've lost him in the physical world. And then again, you know, you've only got him for that 12 months of being in this sort of spiritual realm that he'll, he'll know you and then moving on.

NYANA: 40:15

Yeah, I know, I know. So like. So the grieving process, like I said at the start, you're like, oh my god, he's gone. Especially like around festivals, you feel it a lot more and birthdays and things like that. We were always being in the family celebrating birthdays and, you know, he'd be the first one to go buy someone new clothes and, you know, he'll get the cake and things like that. But we, look. We celebrate Diwali, you know, the festival of lights, so I told you he passed away in August and Diwali was the next big thing we're going to celebrate. And for the one year you're a mourning, right? So you don't do festivals like Diwali and like the Tamil New Year and all that we didn't, you know, you don't celebrate any of that. It's like you grieve every time there's an occasion, you know, because you know the person's not there. Look, you know, you're busy in your everyday life, you know, you tend to like, okay, we'll do this, you go to work, you know, you come home, cook dinner, you know, you redo the next day again. And then a festival will happen and you're like, you would have called this person that day to say, hey, happy Diwali, you know, and his birthday, he was going to turn 70 in October. And so like, and milestone birthday as well, you're like, Oh, he would have been 75 this year, you know, like things are that you remember that's your grieving. So grieving never really goes. Cause every time there's a, you know, an occasion or like, Oh God, I did this amazing thing. I got this promotion. You know, like you would have called this person, but they're not there. But like when you mentioned like, you know, the physical and spiritual thing, you kind of like physically. Like I said, you're not calling this person anymore. So, like, it's a grief process, but I guess, spiritually, like, you know, I did rebirth somewhere. You can just hope in, like, I hope you're, like, somewhere better than what your life was. You know, like, you're born healthy, you know, and all things like that. So, spiritual part, I think it's a little bit easier than the physical. The physical part, especially like, okay, even if you attained moksha, like we said, you're Lord Shiva now, you know, your earth sufferings and pain, it's all gone and you're happy, you know, and we believe you're there with your mom now, like, you know, he's, you know, dad, you know, your sisters who's passed away, you know, like you're all together now. So that

CATHERINE: 42:25

is the belief that that's when you're reunited with the rest of your ancestors. Exactly.

NYANA: 42:30

Like, you know, and you're with God, like, you know, Lord Shiva. So like, either way you're not suffering. That's so many you had here, it's finished now. You're not in pain. You're not having to take medications every day. You know you're happy. You're not in pain, basically.

CATHERINE: 42:44

And how do you, how do you think that, and I I, I suppose it probably might be a difficult question to ask because the, it's all that you've ever known, but how do you feel your belief and the fact that there is. the ability to obtain Moksha. How does that sort of impact on your grief? Is it, I suppose, lessened by the fact that you're knowing each time? Does it make sense what I'm sort of saying? It makes sense, yeah. That's what I'm saying, like, it's,

NYANA: 43:09

it kind of like, it lessens the grief a little bit because you're like, You've attained that emotional life or you're liberated. Like, you know, you don't have to rebirth. You don't have to go through life again. Life's pain. Like, you know, because life has all this up and down in a way. You're like, even though you don't know where, like if he's reborn, like, you can only wish like, you know, his life will just be, there's only ups. But like you said, if he's attained Moksha, like, he doesn't have to go through that again. So, it kind of like lessened the grief a little bit. And that's why we like to think like, you know, that's what we do all this prayer is to make, hopefully he's attained that and hopefully like, you know, or if he's reversed somewhere, hopefully there's been a smooth journey and the journey will be a lot better than what he's had in the previous life. You can only wish like every life someone's had. It's better than the past one.

CATHERINE: 43:59

And have you heard stories or have you experienced personally whereby people have come across perhaps someone they believe may be the soul of someone they've previously met?

NYANA: 44:12

Yeah. In a way, like you get that, you know, feeling that they've sent someone to you, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, my youngest was sent to me specially handpicked, you know, cause my dad never got to meet him. My dad passed away in August and my youngest was born in March. So I'm like, Oh yeah, you got to meet him first before, you know, you guys got to meet each other first before, like, you know, I got to meet him. Just like think of little things like that in your life. You know, your special little boy, cause like, your granddad handpicked you to send us here. And it is a connection, really, like, you have. Not that I have different connection with my kids, like, it's just like a, just knowing that, you know, he didn't get to meet a grandfather, a grandparent. But, I like to think that my dad got to see him first and know him first, like, you know. You've been sent to me.

CATHERINE: 45:01

And you mentioned that it was based on the lunar cycles that you do certain things as well. Can you talk me through a little bit about how the lunar cycle connects in with your belief system?

NYANA: 45:10

Yep. So we believe a lot in like horoscopes and things like that, like, you know, lunar positions and things like that. Like even when a child is born based on like the time and the day and the like positions are like, you know. Moon and things like that, like what their name, their name will start with. So for me personally, I like, you know, my family, we all followed that. I followed that with my kids as well. You know, like what their horoscope based on the time and the day they were born, what their name should start with. And is that the letter it should start with or? Yes, the letter or the sound, either the letter or the sound. So both my kids have that with their middle names because I'm like, that's their connection with my culture. You know, you're going to have this name. This is the name that, you know, my mummy's culture will believe in this.

CATHERINE: 45:55

And this is your middle name. And can you talk me through the naming process? Like how that is derived? Like, is there a guide that you follow or how does it work?

NYANA: 46:04

So that's where, like, you will talk to a priest, a Swami, and they will do, based on like, they've got like a horoscope. And all the names are coming to me right now, like what it's called, but they've got like a book that they just like match it, like almost like a little math calculation and what, what letter matches at that time. So it's very important to have like an exact day, exact time of like when the kid's born, but ending in the same will go for prayers as well. It's like auspicious times, you know, there's such a thing that it's, it's not a good time and there's like an auspicious time. So like when there was this monthly. Prayers that had to be done. The priest would tell my mom, okay, you got to go either like in the 27th, you go on that day to do that prayer, you go before midday, you know, so they were used to that. So every month there was a certain day that they had to go to do these offerings. So I said, we believe that even weddings, when you get wedding, are based on two people's horoscope as well, which is what Ben and I had in Mauritius when we were there. Like we had. And that was a very lovely 4 a. m., 5 a. m. wedding, because that was the time it had to be. So, the lovely, organized, the very organized chaos he still remembers, and look, things like, you know, Pharoah's wedding, it's always an organized chaos with everything, so. And

CATHERINE: 47:22

taking back to the offerings that you were mentioned with the little rice balls with your father's body, after the funeral, how is the funeral concluded at the home for your

NYANA: 47:34

father? On the day of the funeral, it's all about blessing the body, blessing the soul to do prayers and to basically, like I said, my mom had to take what we call a tally. The married women in my culture in Tamil, they wear those prayers about that, because now she's a widow. So you have to like, pretty much, and the marriage is finished now. So I think that the physical marriage of them both is finished. So they had to take that off for her and like, you know, everything she wears a married woman, even colors. Now she's like, you know, they say you don't have to wear like bright colors, you know, like reds and things like that. You don't wear it. So the process then. Like the rice ball comes afterwards, like the prayers like leading on the days leading on after. So there's prayers about the body leaving the house, so saying goodbye to that house now, like, you know, he was born in there, like, you're leaving that house. And then they go, and in my culture, like, you know, we do cremation. You can do both burials and cremation. My dad always said, like, he wanted to be cremated. So then the cremation process happened. It's one thing I like, one thing I don't quite like with this. So it's either like the eldest son or the eldest male relative. So in my family, we're three girls. So my brother in law did it all as like, you know, like. Taking the role of a son, so they have to shave their head as well, like, you know, you have to shave his head, you cut your hair, so they, then they go to the cemetery and do more prayers there, and the son, he's the one, like in the eldest male relative of the son, he's the one who has to light the pyre, as they say, and that's where, then it concludes it. And as he do it as well, like he, like I said, I wasn't there when that happens. My nephew was saying like, when you do it, the moment you liked it, you walk out, you don't look back and all the male relatives are the ones who go there and they're the only ones who do it. It's a cultural thing. Like, you know, women didn't do it back in the day. So it's like, how do I say, I think in a way it's like passing the responsibility to the next male in the family. Like, you know, I think in a way the cultural. Part of it, like, I'm sure it's okay if, like, us girls weren't there, like, it wouldn't be, anything would happen, but it's just more like, what culture they used to do, like, you know, things move from male relative to male relative to male relative, you know, that, that.

CATHERINE: 49:56

And is it the same? Nyana, like when your mum dies, you can't do that either, can you? No, no, no. So it really is just a male thing, regardless of whether it's the female or male matriarch or patriarch dies. And tell me the role with horoscopes. And then there's also that spiritual aspect as well, too, isn't it? So have you experienced or talked to any mediums or anything along that line? How does that play in? That seems to kind of sit sort of naturally with that. So could you talk me through your experience of that, if you don't mind?

NYANA: 50:35

Not at all. So like I was telling you on my little encounter with the medium, because look for me, it was very important to me, like in a way, like I didn't have closure, like, you know, I didn't cry either. Like for me, it was, Seriously, like I think I cried when I felt like I learned the news of it, but then I think I didn't try for like a couple of days, I didn't, like, it was just like that numb feeling and, how do I say, like, also a bit of happiness, happiness in the sense that like, I saw how much she was suffering from like just video calls and photos that I was sending her, I saw how much she wasn't Him anymore. So for me, what's happening is like, he's not suffering now. That's over. You know, that's done. He's like, you know, there's not 16, you know, needles everywhere with him or tubes like, you know, so I, when I was about five or six weeks pregnant, I was like, I want to just to see, it was more to one curiosity to a bit of. Closure. Like, to see what she had to say. And I wanted to get it done before that one year

CATHERINE: 51:42

was over, you know. So this was your second pregnancy. So your father had already died. So it was before his, his one year anniversary.

NYANA: 51:51

The one year that, yes. And it's funny, like, first thing she said to me, her name is Robyn and she is, ah, look. I'm someone who first impression I get connected with someone very like straight away and I like just to just talk back a little bit about how I met Robin from Divine Connections who is an amazing lady like I talked to her like to this day we message each other like she just popped up on my Instagram and I was like. You know how algorithm works. I'm like, why? And I always think back and I'm like, well, it was my dad sending her to me. And like, I just saw her face and he's, you know, someone, you just see someone's face and straight away you feel comfortable. You feel like you can talk to them about everything and anything really. So I had that with her and I always joke with her. I'm like, we must have been related. Now we're past life. I always joke with her, like, you know, the way how I feel, like things she said. And straight away with her, she's like, I see a baby. And like, did someone just have a baby or anything? And I'm like, well, um, five weeks pregnant or six weeks pregnant I was at the time. It's like, I can see a little boy running around. And other time when she said that to me, I thought she meant my nephew, who as well, didn't get to meet my dad. My sister's in Perth, her son. I thought of him straight away. I'm like, oh, it must be him she's talking about. But little did I know, like she was saying I was going to have a boy. And running around, and if you know my son now, he's, you know. It's very

CATHERINE: 53:22

appropriately

NYANA: 53:23

describing him, yes. She's a very little boy, little, you know, she's like, I see a girl, it must be your daughter. I see little butterflies. He's putting like butterflies all around her. And if you know my daughter now, like even back then, she's, you know, she's very determined little girl, but can be like, you know, loves animals. And like we went on a walk this morning and she was like tip top, like, it rained really heavily in Canberra last night, so there's snails and worms everywhere. They woke up so early. I took them for a walk. I'd like six o'clock, six 30. And she was tiptoeing like on like the park. And she's like, I don't want to step on anything so

CATHERINE: 54:02

cute.

NYANA: 54:02

Step on snails or worms. And she will hold a worm in her hand while I'm like squirming, you know, like, but she, he did that, like, you know, straight away. He's, you know, the image was projecting to her. Was like, she's that kind of person, that little girl, you know, she can be up in the air sometimes, but like, it was very much her personality. So things she was saying to me, honestly, like she doesn't know me, this person, you know, Robin doesn't know me. The thing she was saying was like, I told her all that beforehand and she was just seeing it. So for her, I had to send a photo of him ahead of time. She can only do mediumship breeding if someone's passed away more than six weeks. And she said, because you want the soul to settle, because, you know, like just to give the soul the time. Because sometimes when someone passes away, they're not settled, you know. And she was like, from photos and projection, and she said for her, it's projection of images. That he was projecting to her and like I said, it was quite the closure like, you know, I think she's like, Oh, I can hear music and I can see him with his arms around like a, you know, two other little lady. And I'm like, I'm like, probably my grandma, his mom, like, you know, cause my grandma, my mom's. Mom was very much like a mom to him as well. They had a good relationship and also the one that got to me, my dad had a brother who passed away when he was like eight, nine, you know, back in the day. And he's like, I can see a kid around him, like hugging him from the back. And I was like, Oh my goodness, it's probably him, you know? And she was like, yeah, there's a little kid that's very shy. And your dad's like, you know, ruffling his hair, like, and it's okay. Like, you know, and was like images like this. And that's where, like you said, you know, like the grieving process. It was a lot easier to say that because he's obviously happy because, you know, if he's hearing, if she's like in the music, but happy music, I can hear. And I'm like, yes. So like, it's probably what he's projecting to say he's happy. So that was quite an interesting, like it was meant to be an hour and I think when Robin and I probably spoke for like an hour and a half, two hours, she was quite unwell and Robin had breast cancer. And she didn't do any reading for quite a while, and when she was better and she was okay, I was one of her first, I was her first reading back. So, look, it's personal, like, some people don't believe in mediums and some people do, and, like, the experience that I've had with her, things she said to me, There's definitely a connection there. There's definitely something there, like out there, you know, in the body, like the soul, like, you know, trying to communicate with someone. And like I said, it was, it was an amazing experience and gave me a little bit of closure as well. Having that definitely helps with the grieving. Because for me, it was grieving, like I was able to take my oldest back to Mauritius when she was like, you know, four months old, six, five months old, like, you know, my family got to meet her and he got to meet her and hold her and all that, but my youngest didn't get that. So that's another level of grief as well. Like what could have been, you know, what would have been, which you don't have now. So having that little closure, you're like. A bit. Hell definitely helps with, like, the grieving process a little bit.

CATHERINE: 57:20

And moving forward, Nyana, do you still honour your father? Do you still talk about your father? How are you, sort of, moving on with the next, sort of, phase and your own children, like?

NYANA: 57:31

Yeah, absolutely. So, we recently, like, finished, three days ago, we, like, a festival of the dead we have in my culture. We believe there's a certain time where Look, souls are like closer to you on like, you know, the physical sort of earth. And during that time we pour water, we do more prayers and all that. And so I think the kids saw me do that. So like you believe like you're pouring water for the past family. Look I still do prayers if there's something like, especially around like Diwali is the next thing that's happening next at the end of the month, start of end of October, start of November is Diwali. So there will always be a prayer for them as well. A special prayer where you honor the past family, so there'll be like food laid out for them and all that. And Diwali, it's about sweets. You make cakes, you know, so there's always, you'll be prayers with this as well. So the kids have seen me. That's one thing I do here since having kids every year, like Diwali. Even when you're in mourning process, you can do it in a way, you just do it among yourself. You don't go, because Diwali is about distributing cakes to your neighbors and families and all that. So you don't do that when you're in mourning process, but you can do some on yourself as if you're in the house. But here in Australia, look, there's not a lot of that cultural thing. I'm sure if I went to my neighbor, like, it's Diwali, here's some cake, he'll take it. But like, my group of friends here of similar sort of culture, we do it. So we'll do Diwali probably the week after, so everyone will bring a plate and cake and that's how we'll do the sharing. So like I said, occasions and festivals like that. You always remember the past, families, it's like you always have a chair there for them, you always have like a plate of food there for them, you do like a, there's always an offering.

CATHERINE: 59:11

And so can you just talk me through, you were saying that you were pouring the water, so it's a three day death festival? No, it's longer than that.

NYANA: 59:19

Oh, gosh. I think it was for about two weeks. Yeah. Right. There's certain days you pour the water. And I always rely on my sister, the one who's Mauritius to tell me, okay, make sure you pour water today for dad. And, you know, and you pour some water and there'll be a milk as well. And like I said, if it was in Mauritius, we'll be a bit bigger. We'll do more prayers and all that. But here I'm quite like, you know, I just pour some water. Like, you know, for me, I just use like a pot of plant. I'm like, I think of him and I'm like, the water's going to that, for that flower. I just pour some water in there in the morning for him, just a little glass of water. So it's just like you're pouring water for them. That's the offering

CATHERINE: 59:57

part. So it's not a shrine that you have set up or anything like that. It's just a process or an action. Exactly. Yeah. And does that all link in with the lunar cycle, where it is and where it's dictated?

NYANA: 1:00:11

I think it is, because like I said, we didn't do it when it started. We did it towards the end, showing me how, like, I did it then. And I'm pretty sure it has to do something with that. Even though it was a festival the day, like, you know, the past people, like, it's like a festival, each day was a different prayer day sort of thing. Yeah. And the day that I poured the water from that day on, like, my still was like, okay, that day on, like, you know. Do it before it finishes on the second issue. You pour some water. So. Like I said, I wish I knew more about it and, but it's just like, you know, even her as well, like, you know, it's, it's what we've learned from like grandparents and all that. You do it on certain days, you do that.

CATHERINE: 1:00:49

Why do you think that you, you know, you're obviously in Australia, you're very much removed from your family as much as we love you in our family, but you are, you know, you're quite removed from your family. Why do you think that it's important to you to hold on to these traditions?

NYANA: 1:01:08

Look, be in Australia. Half my life, it's a little bit more now, so like, you get disconnected with things that's available there that they do, like you can do it here. One time difference is if I like, you know, so if something has to be done in the morning, it's like midnight, then I'm like six o'clock healthy. I'll do it now. And then I'm like, what do I do? So like, you know, my sister will message me the time before, but the important thing is like, I do it mainly for my kids. Cause I'm like, you guys have to know where you come from. You're not going to be disconnected from that at all. Even though I don't do it like, you know, a hundred percent, even if it's 50%, that's 50 percent that I've passed to you in a way. So when, if you have kids, Okay. As well, you'd be like, oh yeah, grandma used to do this and do that and we have to do it as well. Same like language, French, like, you know, they have to learn this because I'm like, one, it's where, you know, mommies learn this, you know, like it's, we speak French in Mauritius, girl, it's a plus to know. But like for me, culturally, you have to know this. So like Diwali, like I said, other friends here that I've met through my mom's group with my youngest one. Again, someone from India, you know, different sort of cultures as well. So they try and do it here. Same because they don't have family as well here, like right in Canberra here. So we do it together because they as well want to bring that culture for their children. Because, you know, it's what it was back home growing up. It's what we have. So it's very important in a way, like, you know, You have to learn these things, where you're from, you shouldn't cut it out, you know, you pass on as much as possible.

CATHERINE: 1:02:39

Yeah, and it's, you know, the more research they do it now, is it's really embedded into your DNA with epigenetics, and you are really a product of your ancestral history in more ways than one, so.

NYANA: 1:02:51

Absolutely, and like, recently Canberra had this art exhibition for like, they wanted immigrants to participate in. And I saw this, I'm like, yeah, I have to do something like, you know, so for me, again, a cultural thing, I'm like, the kids have to know. So I did it, I'd paint as well. Well, you're not, don't just paint. You're a very good artist. Oh God. I hope so. You are. So for me, so most just do what we call a sega. Any Mauritian you'd ask what sega, everyone would know what sega is. So it's like a dance of Mauritians, you know, we all know, folklore sort of. Dance. So for me, my painting, I've wanted to bring that and what the exhibition was about was like bringing your culture with Australian culture. Why can you put together, what can you do that merges your culture, the two cultures together? So for me, it was doing this lady dancing, Sega dancing. And when people do Sega dancing, it's this massive flowy, big skirt, it's a lot of drums and all that. So I did that. And in the background was like, I did eucalyptus. I love Australian flora, like, you know, like fauna and flora, I love it. I still love it. So for me, that was the best way to do it. So like her skirt, I had like water flowers on it and at the bottom of it, I brought in my hometown as well. So. My kids saw me do this, like, you know, mommy, what are you painting? What is this? Can we help? And like, they got me their paintbrush as well to come and help me with my painting. I'm like, Nope. So they wanted to help, you know, bless their little house. I want to help. But then it made me talk about it, what that was. And when we went to the opening night, they saw different cultures, like, you know, different from different countries, different things. So. Like I said, culture is a big thing. You gotta hold on to, especially when you move around. So if one day even they decide to leave Australia to move somewhere else, so they have like, you know, Martian culture, not Australian culture, like I want to like, for them to have with them and then, you know, to always carry that. And, you know, because that's part of who you are, really. I

CATHERINE: 1:05:05

think that that's really beautiful, Nyana. And what I also like is the fact that you're so open to also, you know, just embracing things that you see from other cultures as well, and embedding those sort of traditions in your family. When we recently caught up, it was Chinese New Year. And the kids had the, what's the little tradition that you have with them that you've developed as a family? You've, you've done with the little token gifts that they get, the little money pockets or something. Hanbaos. Yeah,

NYANA: 1:05:37

there you go. So like in Chinese culture, like, you know, you give money to kids in your red envelopes. I think the significance of it is like good luck, kids. So they get a little note in a little red envelope, which they call hongbaos. So better now since having kids were like, no, you know what, we'll bring that to them. That's like a little, it's 5, you know, you put that in the envelope and means the world to kids like, Oh goodness, 5, you know, like it's just more like this is, do you want to buy something with it? You want to save this money or, you know, buy something with a second little good luck, you know, to start the new year. Like, and. I should say for me, like I said, Mauritius is very, very multicultural, right? So there's public holidays for Chinese New Year, for Diwali, you know, there's public holidays for like each culture has their public holiday. Now when, like for example, Chinese New Year, I have a neighbor who will come and bring little like spring rolls or like, you know, things that they've made for the like cultural food. They will come and drop it, you know. So, and for us as well, like if there's a, been a prayer, like in Tamil, we do what we call seven curries with rice and all that. So, that's like a typical Tamil sort of meal, like, you know, every prayer, wedding and all that. So, we'll tell neighbors, come eat. Oh, there's leftover. We'll go and drop it. Like, you know, it's how everyone, each culture knows of each culture's like festival and like, it's always a sharing. And, you know, look, back in the day was a lot more now, unfortunately, with time going by, like, you know, people losing that a little bit, but that's how I knew about it and Ben knows about it. And so we brought that and it's fine. Like they do the dragon dance and all that. So just the blessings of dragon dance is like the blessing of like a business and all that. You know, they do here. So just up the road from where we live here at the shops, they come and do it. So we take the kids and it's meant to be good luck to go and have one of them. But as you know, Melbourne does, it's so much, you know, it's, it's huge. And we were, we planned it that way as well. Like we'll be in the city when we'll see them, the kids can see what that's about. And I remember we had Chinese food. We had Asian food that day as well. Yeah. So it's just bringing the little cultures out to the kids. I feel like. If we don't pass these to the kids, they're just, you know, it's going to die with us. So it's up to them to like partake in things like that and maintain, especially respecting it. You know, other cultures have this certain festival that they do and all that. So you respect it because like, you know, and then they will respect yours as well. So that's why we always do that. We always just give them a little hongbao and Usually it's straight away go to the shops to go get lollies or something, but it's like a little, you know, and we believe in like for New Year's as well, like Tamil New Year, which is in April, we wear brand new clothes, you know, it's not just the New Year, the 31st of December. So each culture have their own New Year's as well. So we do that as well in April and the kids, you know, we'll do again, there'll be prayer, we cook food, we eat, we get like, you know, you put new clothes on, so the kids know that. So, oh well, the oldest knows that, so. And I'm sure

CATHERINE: 1:08:48

the youngest will, will

NYANA: 1:08:48

come to know that as well. Oh, he will, he will. I don't mind when he's just like, what's going on, but he will.

CATHERINE: 1:08:56

And is there anything else that you'd like to share with us about your culture or your traditions?

NYANA: 1:09:03

Well, I feel like my Tamil culture basically, like, mainly, it's a lot about respect and like I said, you do the prayers and things like that. It's more about how like the community is as well, like as a family and all that. So look, grieving is a very hard thing that it will hit you whenever you could be driving one day and just hits you like it's done it with me. So. I feel like people understand, like, as they've been through it with you, as a family, as, like, you know, even your neighbors and all that, so grieving is nothing to be ashamed of, really, like, you know, we all grieve differently, you know, I never believe, like, grieving will stop, you know, like, for that person, because you're grieving a particular person, idea of them, like, when they were there and all that, so, you know, don't keep your grief inside, just, you know, Grief happens, it's just, it's part of who a person is, like it's, the person's gone now. So you're always like, you know, in the memory of them. The grieving, I think, just, I feel like it makes you not forget about that person. And part of my culture, like I said, for that month, you know, every month you're thinking of that person, you're doing this special offering. So. Even now, like, it was just the five years anniversary. So, my mum went, I think, they did a prayer, they offered the temple and all that. So, you just, you remember the person as much as you can. And I forgot to mention, like, here, I think, the only, the funeral I've been was pastoral. So, that was completely different as well. That was, like, you know, it wasn't at home. It was somewhere else. And, like, the way, again, the grieving is different. You have, like, the wake is different. It's just, you know, each culture do their, own way that they've learned and, you know, that's been passed on again by our grandparents. Like, you know, this is how we do it. And again, the grieving, there might not be a monthly thing, but like, you remember that, you know, a month later, you know, that day, you remember them. And then when the year anniversary happened, like, you still remember them. Yeah,

CATHERINE: 1:10:57

I

NYANA: 1:10:58

think

CATHERINE: 1:10:58

that, you know, I always remember Nyana just referred to Pa and that would be my father when he died. So he died 10, nearly 11 years ago now. And that was completely unexpected. He died of a stroke at home. And his funeral was very much a one that he was, had planned himself. He wanted a RAF chaplain and he wanted it in a church. And he, he wanted a particular funeral home to do it. And he got all of that. So he got the traditions. That he wanted to. So,

NYANA: 1:11:26

yeah, exactly. And, um, you know how I said in my culture, like, you know, the cremation. So then the next day you collect the ash and then you go and like, you know, you release it somewhere where that person wanted. And for my dad, he always said. Growing up, there was a river he used to play out, you know, like in an area like this, you know, friends and siblings and all that, like, you know, and he remember his mom crossing that river to go to work and all that. So he wanted it to release the ash there. So then the next day the boys did that as well. And my brother in law, my nephew, they went and released the ash in that area. So in a way, like, look, my dad got sick. But we were hoping the surgery would go ahead. He'll be okay and all that, but he didn't. And in a way he did pass away suddenly in a way, because it was, it went quite quick the way his health declined. But even though it was unexpected in a way, at least we've had that conversation with him in the past. He said, you know, I want it to be, you know, I want to be cremated. I, you know, you go release the ash in that area. So in a way that helps with your grief because you've had that conversation. And for me, then look, before having kids, I never thought about death and things like that. I'm like, Oh, you know, but then like, for me personally, like, I was like, I just conversation I haven't had with anyone like probably. Ben, but then the husband, and then I'm like, in a way, like, do I want to be here or back in motion? So it's like your heart is in two places all the times, you know, so it gets you to think like, you know, what would I want to be in a situation like that? You look as you look, tomorrow is not promised to anyone. So things can happen like this. So it kind of like makes you think like, you know, maybe it's a conversation you need to have, have a plan, even if you don't want to talk to someone, maybe write it somewhere or like, you know, what form of a will or something like, it just gets you thinking, you know, when someone passes away, like, you know, how will my situation be? And it does

CATHERINE: 1:13:36

make a difference, doesn't it? When you, you feel, I think being the, a daughter, you know, both of us have been in that situation where you're the daughter and, and to know that you're going through the process that is what they would have liked followed makes it a little bit easier. Cause you kind of feel that at least you're honoring them the way in which they requested to be honored. Exactly.

NYANA: 1:13:58

Exactly. Yeah. So. Like I said, it helps like, you know, cause then you would have thought like, even though, let's say he didn't say where the place he wanted the ash to be released, you're like, it will always be on your mind. Like, is that the place we wanted? Yeah. You know, like, did I do right by him to do this? Like he did say cremation. So we did that. What do we do with the ash now?

CATHERINE: 1:14:16

So, you know, like. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing is that it's having those conversations in their entirety. It's not just making that one decision because then you're left with, well, what do I do with the ashes? And so it's really fantastic that you had that conversation, you know, and, and your dad brought it up when he still could, but, you know, we've seen in both our, our parents dying, both of our fathers dying, that it was really unexpected in both cases.

NYANA: 1:14:44

Yeah. Yeah.

CATHERINE: 1:14:45

And the importance of those conversations, you know, just to, to have them and, you know, documented if you can, but the main thing is just start having the conversations.

NYANA: 1:14:55

Exactly. Yeah. And I still remember the day he said it to me, like he told you to my sisters, I went to me, we went like a, it was like a, Not so much kayaking. We went up in a boat. One of his friends got a boat. So we went up that river and Ben was with us as well then. And then he said like, Oh, this is a river. You know, my mom used to cross this. We've had so much fun here. We used to play on the rocks and all that. And one day when I die. I love it

CATHERINE: 1:15:21

though.

NYANA: 1:15:22

I love

CATHERINE: 1:15:22

that. They're

NYANA: 1:15:23

the sort of conversations I

CATHERINE: 1:15:24

have in my family, Nyana.

NYANA: 1:15:27

Like it's, it's fine. Like, you know, he was showing me things and like, like, Oh, it's so great here. We used to catch this here. We used to do this. Oh, and then like, you know, but yeah, make sure when I die, like, you know, it's like, okay, you know, just tell me about it. Like, you know, so he's like, Oh, it's how much fun he had there. And it was like, okay. At least, like, you know, in a way, the conversation, like, he's had that out there, so. That's good. That

CATHERINE: 1:15:51

is great. Good old Basu. That's fantastic. Well, look, thank you so much for being my guest, Nyana. I'm so glad we finally got to have this chat.

NYANA: 1:16:01

Oh, I know. Like, I was like, we're not cancelling this because something will happen. Fantastic. No, it's great. It's been, it's good to talk about. I'm like, look, until you go through it, people don't understand. Yeah. And there's just so much you can tell someone, this will happen. You got to do this. You got to do that. And people will tell you as well. You know, this will happen. That will happen. But until you go through it and you live it. You don't

CATHERINE: 1:16:21

really trigger it, do you?

NYANA: 1:16:22

Exactly. And different family members will go through different grieving process and you got to respect that as well. So. Yeah,

CATHERINE: 1:16:28

totally.

NYANA: 1:16:29

Totally. So right. Yeah. Exactly.

CATHERINE: 1:16:32

Thank you so much, Nyana. All right. Thank you. We hope you enjoyed today's episode of Don't Be Caught Dead, brought to you by Critical Info. If you liked the episode, learnt something new, or were touched by a story you heard, we'd love for you to let us know. Send us an email, even tell your friends. Subscribe so you don't miss out on new episodes. If you can spare a few moments. Please rate and review us as it helps other people to find the show. Are you dying to know more? Stay up to date with. Don't be caught dead by signing up to our newsletter and follow us on social media Head to Don't Be Caught dead.com for more information and loads of resources.