Ghosts, Graves, and Gossip: Uncovering Sorrento's Haunted History

Ever wondered what it's like to chat with ghosts for a living? Join me as I sit down with Jenny Tomkins, the fascinating mind behind Sorrento Ghost Tours, who stumbled into the world of the paranormal quite by accident. What started as a way to stay awake for late-night mum taxi duties has turned into a 14-year journey of discovery, scepticism, and ultimately, belief.

Jenny shares how she's developed her own sensitivities over the years. She recounts incredible experiences, from ghostly encounters in haunted houses to the surprising ways spirits communicate through modern technology. But it's not all spooks and spectres - Jenny's tours have also unveiled forgotten histories, including poignant stories of Indigenous spirits still making their presence felt.

This episode is a deep dive into the world of ghost tours, clairvoyance, and the thin veil between our world and the next. Jenny's journey from non-believer to ghost whisperer will challenge your perceptions and maybe, just maybe, make you question what lies beyond our everyday reality. Whether you're a sceptic or a true believer, Jenny's stories will leave you with a newfound curiosity about the unseen world around us.

Key points from our discussion:

• The accidental birth of Sorrento Ghost Tours - from mum taxi to ghost guide
• Jenny's personal journey from sceptic to believer
• The role of clairvoyants in developing ghost tour routes
• Unexpected ghostly communication through modern technology
• The importance of historical research in validating paranormal experiences
• Dealing with sceptics and managing different levels of belief
• The ethics of ghost tours and 'moving spirits on'
• Indigenous spirits and the importance of respecting sacred sites
• The development of personal sensitivity to the paranormal over time
• The varying ways people perceive and interact with spirits
• The impact of running ghost tours on personal beliefs and life outlook

Remember; You may not be ready to die, but at least you can be prepared.

Take care,

Catherine

Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
01:20 The Accidental Birth of Sorrento Ghost Tours
05:10 From Sceptic to Spirit Whisperer
10:45 Ghostly Communication Through Modern Tech
15:30 The Role of Clairvoyants in Ghost Tours
19:50 Historical Research Validating P

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Transcript

0:01

I did children's tours for a bit, and I've got one bad ghost, the abductor. When I have a child on the tour, they'll go, Oh, my left hand's really cold. What does that mean? And he used to lead them off, apparently. He'd hold their hands and lead them off to abduct them. Welcome to Don't Be Caught Dead, a podcast encouraging open conversations about dying and the death of a loved one. I'm your host, Catherine Ashton, founder of Critical Info, and I'm helping to bring your stories of death back to life. Because while you may not be ready to die, at least you can be prepared. Don't Be Caught Dead acknowledges the lands of the Kulin Nations and recognises their connection to land, sea and community. We pay our respects to their elders past, present, and emerging, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander and First Nation peoples around the globe. Today I'm speaking with Jenny Tompkins. She runs Sorento Ghost Tours. They operate on the Mornington Peninsula. Jenny takes group tours to locations known to be haunted in and around Sorento. Thank you for being with us, Jenny. Pleasure. Now tell me, what inspired you to start Sorrento Ghost Tours? Well, it came about because I was doing emergency teaching and I got a bit sick of it, to be honest. And I thought, what else can I do with my life and I've always loved history. And my children were about 15, 16, 17 and they'd started to go to parties. So I thought, wouldn't it be good if I could work on Saturday nights and stay up late so that I could go and pick them up after the parties and, you know, I'd be awake, I'd be alive. So that's how it started. And then I decided to do history tours during the day. And then someone said to me, if you do ghost tours, There's a lot of history in them. And I thought, if I do ghost tours, I'm not sure whether I believe in ghosts or spirits. I didn't even know what I thought about it. So I went and did the Ballarat ghost tour. And I said to the fellow, do you mind if I have a chat to you afterwards? And he said, yeah, yeah, no worries. And I said, I really am thinking of doing them at Sorrento, but I'm not sure how I believe, whether I believe in the ghosts. And I said, I don't like lying to people. And he said, well, you're basically telling ghost stories. And he said, but give yourself six months, you will be an avid believer because weird stuff will start to happen. Well, it only took me three months. The things that were going on on my tours, I just went, there is more to this than what I had even contemplated. That was incredible. Yeah, so that's how it all started, just because of my children going to parties, really, and then I can't believe that this whole business is based on something for you to do while you're waiting to be the mum taxi. Yeah, that's right. I know. It was funny because I used to pick them up, because I wear a big Black cloak and a big dress and two of my children said, don't get out of the car when you get here. And then I had another one at my third child said, Oh, can you come in, in your costume? Everyone wants to see it. So that's hilarious. So I just drive. So I used to operate quite a bit later. So I'd sort of do a tour at 10 and finish at 12 and go and do the pickup after that. How very convenient, Goth mum has arrived. Now tell me, you did this, you know, tour in Ballarat. What happened from then? So from then I decided that I would start, because I thought his advice was great. So I had already gathered the history of Sorrento, because I've always been interested in it, but I went further. I joined the museum. I joined You know, other historical societies. And I started to look for all the history and I decided which historical places I wanted to go to. So I got all the history about, you know, the continental hotel, the Sorrento hotel, the morgue, the Cunha, which is not called the Cunha anymore. And then I went and dropped a pamphlet into all those places and said, have you got any ghost stories for me? I couldn't believe how many people rang and were telling me Ghost stories. So then I had like a, so I'd sort of formulated my script, then I decided to get a group of clairvoyants out and see whether they could pick anything up in the spots that I'd picked up. So there's a few groups down here which learn how to be clairvoyants and talk to ghosts. So I invited one group out. And they came out, there were six of them, and they picked up murders, they picked up the ghosts that I'd been told were there, without me prompting. Like, it was all just, I'd say, apparently there's something here, and they'd come up with it. And then they'd often get names, they'd get what they're wearing, etc. Then I would go back to the museum, and see if I could find what they were saying. Anything in the actual history books that worked with what they were actually saying. So that's sort of how it formulated. And then I got into, because I've never watched ghost stories. Like I've never really even been interested particularly. I bought some ghost monitors from America, beepers, and they pick up electricity. So electricians would say they're just picking up. They're like a stud finder, I guess. But the spiritualists were saying that when a ghost or a spirit comes in it sets off like an electrical vibe I guess? So the ghost monitors would beep. And then I discovered that I could actually ask questions to the ghost monitors. So I could say, can you stop beeping if you're Margaret? And, um. The monitor might stop beeping, and then I'd ask another question and have you got more than one children and it would beep. So, you know, look, it's not 100 percent spot on, but it's enough for me to be really interested and for my clients to be interested as well. I've got to ask, you've got to take me back. I need more detail about the six clairvoyants. Oh, yes. Well, one of them is a local girl, and she's renowned at being very, very accurate and being very in tune with. You know, animals and how they're feeling people, how they're feeling and she sees ghosts. There's some people that can see ghosts, hear ghosts and empathize with them. So there's all these different skills or gifts, I guess I've started to call them. Some people can only feel them. Some people can only see ghosts or spirits. Some people can feel their feelings. So if someone's really, really sad. They'll start crying, or if someone's really happy, they'll get very happy. So there's all these different gifts that go with it, and this particular lady has the gift of everything. And I've met quite a few of those people since I started the tours, too, because they sometimes come on the tours. And it is absolutely fascinating when they can actually see them, know what they're thinking, get information out of the ghosts, and have a conversation with them. It's quite extraordinary. And is there a particular incident that you could recall and share with us where there has been that conversation that you've witnessed? I've had lots. I mean, there are thousands of conversations, but there was a lady that rang me. Her name's Karen. I won't say her last name just for privacy because I haven't asked whether I could talk about it. She actually rang me one day and said, I see you're running ghost tours. I'm going on a television show as a clairvoyant. Can I come and practice with you? And I said, Oh yeah, absolutely. So she arrived, I wasn't in my outfit, I was just in shorts and a t shirt and we went around and I would say there's something here and she would tell me about whoever it was there. Because I kept a diary for four years on what everyone said at each particular spot. So the first six clairvoyants got me lots of stuff. Then, as people came on my tours, because there is a lot of people that are in tune with the afterlife, they would say things, and I'll write it in my diary, on the corner of, say, Ocean Beach Road, someone said, there's a guy in a top hat, and I'd write it down. Well, she was spot on, with everything that had ever been said, she picked it up. She was absolutely incredible and then we got to one spot and I said to her I'd like to wait here because there's someone here that I don't know anything about no one's been able to get any information about and I didn't tell her whether it was a girl or boy because I thought I'll test her and she said oh no there's no one here and I said no can we just wait a bit longer and then I said are you here are you here and Karen said oh goodness there's a little boy hanging over the fence there. And she turns to him and says, yes, it's Jenny. And she said, he's giggling because he's wondering why you're in your pajamas. And I said, what does he mean by that? And Karen said, do you normally wear something different when you come on your tours? And I said, Oh yeah, I'm in a black coat. And she said, Oh, he thought you were from his time and he hadn't seen you in shorts and a t shirt. So he thought I was in my pajamas. So anyway, Karen said, Oh, he's just jumped the fence and he's thrown his arms around you to say hello. So he's given me a big cuddle, apparently, and I was able to get his name, how he died, what he was wearing, what he was holding, all this sort of stuff. And then she said, actually, he's got lots of questions for you. Do you mind if I, can I ask you some questions? And I said, yeah, of course. And she said he cannot stop laughing because he said he came home with me one night and he said, can you please bring the little blue basketball that your kids at home play with Because they're always bouncing them on your floorboards. And he said, and I've never seen you get cross, except for when they bounce these little blue basketballs on your floorboards. And he said, you always say to your kids, will you stop bouncing those basketballs? It's going kalump, kalump, kalump. And that is exactly what happened. What I've said, so I said to Karen, just, do my ghosts come home with me? And she said, well, quite possibly, because if they like you, they'll just come and have a look around and then, you know, then they'll come back. And have you ever had that feeling that someone's in the car with you, or when she was saying the boy was hugging you, have you had that feeling at all? Not then, but now I've actually developed, in fact, a lot of people have said I'm an empath. So if you were to say to me, there's a little boy here, if I get the goosebumps, I know that you're correct. If I don't get any goosebumps, you still may be correct, but I'm not picking it up as well. So yes, now I can tell whether I've got someone next to me, but I have to be concentrating. It's not, I don't have the gift where, you know, there could be someone next to me now and I wouldn't have a clue. I have to actually concentrate. And I can tell if people are correct or not. And do you think that is maybe a skill that we all have, but we're just too distracted to be in tune with it? A hundred percent. In fact, I've never gone to try and see if I can learn anything else because there's a point where I want to stay in this world and I don't want to get too involved with that world. But yeah, I do, because if I've been able to develop it, it means anyone can develop it. And I think. You know, since then I have seen a ghost. So that's even that next step beyond that and picked him out in a history book and rang the owner and they said, yes, that's who it is. So I think you've got to be open to it. And I think it's a bit like, you know, when you paint a house, you're going to. Thing like hypergenia, it's called, where you're just painting and you're not concentrating. That's when you'll see your ghosts and spirits for most people. So it's like when you just wake up in the morning and you know, you start thinking, Oh, I've just dreamt that. I just dreamt that someone came in or I just dreamt whatever. The chances are you haven't just dreamt it. It is actually something that is happening to you. It is really interesting, but I imagine people that have gifts all the time can slip into that hypergenia more easily than myself. And I've never tried to, you know, learn it, I guess. And Jenny, do you mind sharing the story about when you saw a ghost? Oh yeah, that was quite extraordinary. And can I tell you before I tell you the story? I've never watched Ghostbusters until after I saw this ghost. So I went away with five girlfriends up near Malden, and we're in the middle of nowhere. And we're in this beautiful old house that was 1870. And I'm a snorer. Or I was a snorer, apparently I don't snore now, but I was. So all my girlfriends always put me out in the room on my own. And my friend had built up this fire so big, she's like, she just loves fire. And I was a bit nervous about going to bed with the fire and the grate being so big. So I was a little bit, you know, agitated anyway. But apparently when there's ghosts around, that's how you feel. Agitated, heart rate, things like that. So I was feeling particularly that way. So I went to bed. And then I woke up and my sheet was lifted and someone climbed in the bed next to me. And because I was sort of dreaming, I said, is that you? And I said, my sister's name and no answer, of course. And then I started to just naturally go get out of my bed, get out of my bed. I couldn't actually feel anything. It was quite weird. I just knew. Something was in the bed with me. Then they went, and then I felt the sheet lift again. Get out, get out! And then this face flew towards me, and it was about at least half a meter wide, and like round, like a big round face, but I could still see a face, and it came flying towards me, like when you open your computer and a face comes out, it was a bit like that, and it came flying at me at a hundred miles an hour, and I actually went like that. And I kept watching it and it actually had a little tail. So really extraordinary. And then it just disappeared. And the next day I said to my friends, this is what happened to me last night. And everyone's gone. You dreamt it. And I said, yeah, well, I think I might've. And then one of my friends who's a little bit. Clever went said, can you look through this history book and see if you can see this guy's face? So I'm flicking through and just happened to have like a hundred photos of people that had lived in the area. And I said, Oh, that's him. So we rang the owner of the house and I said, does say Henry, does Henry blah, blah, haunts this house. And the guy that owned the house said, yes, lots of people have rung and said, have you got a ghost? But he was so much fun because I said to him, I don't want you here the following night and he didn't come back, but the house was so old, it had light, you know, those big cords from the lights that you turn on and he wouldn't let me turn the lights on. And then my friends had come over and go, it just turns on like that. I go, yeah, but I can't do it. And it turned out he was playing funny buggers. So then I'd say to him, don't let my friends turn it on. So then they'd come over and then they couldn't turn it on. Yeah. So, yeah, it was, it was great and it was really good for me. And you hadn't noticed this history book earlier in the day? You hadn't looked through it or? No. In fact, when I was telling my friends about it at breakfast, someone said there's a portrait over the fireplace and I went, Oh, I wonder if that's it. So I went out, wasn't the guy over the fireplace and someone said, there's another photo over there. So we were looking around the whole house and none of the photos. And then it was her that said, I actually saw this, it's in my bedroom, and she said come and have a look at this one. And that's when I saw his face. Wow. And so the owner said that there'd been similar stories? Yes. Said a lot of people ring and say, there's this guy. So I don't know, maybe some people that can talk to him actually got his name from him, or maybe they all opened the history book, I don't know. Because they have a funny way of, you know, directing you as well, Ghost. So, because my friend was slightly in tune, she might have went, I think he's in that history book. So, now that I know a little bit more, I could probably concentrate and get a bit of a clue, possibly, about where we could find out who that person was. And Jenny, This holiday away with your girlfriend, was this before you started your business or after? After. It was probably three or four years in. Yeah, okay. So you maybe started to develop that feeling? Yes, and I knew enough that I could ask him not to let my friends turn on the light. So I knew quite a bit about how I could play with the ghosts by then. So it sounds like your experience has made you perhaps more courageous in relation to exploring this sort of communication between the two worlds or realms. Like, how do you refer to it? What's the appropriate terms? Yeah, good question. And I don't want to offend anyone out there that actually knows a lot more than me because I've deliberately, like, I've stayed slightly ignorant because I don't want to be waking up and seeing ghosts all the time or feeling them. You know, like people say, they come at them in the shopping center and they're trying to get messages to their loved ones. I don't want to get to that point where they're annoying me in a nice way at all. It just is what it is. And even people say, you know, if we start talking about someone's mum that's passed away or sisters, they'll come into the room and I'll feel them come in and I'll start to get questions in my head. I couldn't even tell you how it happens. It just happens. And as a child, were you a curious kid? No, not about anything like that. Like I was an avid reader. I've always loved historical romances. I've always loved history genre, but I've never been supernatural or anything like that. My mum was into it. And if anything, I think it probably made me turn away from it. A little bit, but it's been lovely now that I've got this bit of an understanding, 'cause I actually understand her a little bit more now. And when you say your mum was into it, can you gimme a few examples? Mum used to say she could see things and we just used to laugh at her. We were terrible. Like really bad. Really bad. Actually didn't take her seriously at all. Do you recall one of her stories? There was a guy in the back shed that she reckoned had killed someone with a ax. And she wouldn't go into the shed. Like, she just wouldn't go there. We used to go and not feel anything. Okay, there's nothing in here. You know, so she probably didn't tell us as much as she could have because we were so, you know, you're making it up. Which is really bad. If you've got any family that sees things, please be nicer than we were. Because they're not making it up. Most people that say it are actually legitimate. And how would you say your experience has sort of moulded and changed, you know, from this child that really didn't believe what her mum was saying, to now having your own personal experiences, and almost feeling like that you got to the point where you were sharing a joke with the ghost against your friends with the light switch? Yes. Yes, I know. I choose who I share everything with, which was one of my concerns about coming on here, because I'm selling the ghost to us, and then I've had this terrible conscience, because I promised all the ghosts I'd move them through to the light, which is, you know, something else to talk about, but I don't think I should be selling it. I think I should be moving all the ghosts on and just leaving it as it is. And I was telling six of my friends and two of them are male and I could feel their faces next to me going, thinking, you're an idiot. I've seen my girlfriend across going, you're an idiot. And then my other two friends that are very in tune are both going, yeah, I can see the dilemma. So I'm very careful with who I talk about things with because there are some people that, you know, just. They're not ready to accept anything that's a little bit beyond this world. But you weren't always a believer. You know, it's funny because people have told me ghost stories before, like, I had a friend came to work one day and said, Oh gosh, I opened the wardrobe today and there was a ghost. This guy came out. And I would listen and it wasn't that I didn't believe her. I just didn't take that next step to actually really think about what she was saying. And at what point did you think, okay, there's something in this? Oh, it would have been, I reckon, after my third tour. Actually, no, even earlier than that. I reckon my first two tours with friends so that I could tweak it. So it was just like a little practice to it. The first tour that I took public out with alleyway. Everyone's cameras just drained of battery, and then they all came, once we got out of that area, all the batteries came back up. So I'd read about things like that, but I actually never expected it to happen on my tours. And was that their batteries, like, on their mobile phone cameras, or their old school cameras? Both, because that was 14 years ago. Not everyone owned a mobile then, did they? They were just sort of coming in. So some people were still carrying battery ones, and some people had the mobile. So a bit of both. Wow. And that was what second tour in, did you say? Well, even probably the first public tour. Because I used to have lanterns that I used to give to everyone to carry around, and sometimes they would flicker and go off in certain areas. People with torches used to bring torches, because they didn't have the mobile phone, of course, back then. The batteries had stopped working, and they'd go, we just changed the batteries before we came on the tour. So that was kind of the start of it and then probably on my third tour in I had this boy called Jeremy come and He was about 20 and he stayed after the tour. He'd never told anyone that he could see ghosts ever, ever, ever. So he'd come on his own. He did the tour and we're talking afterwards in the park and he said, you know, it's been so nice to listen to you talk and realize that I'm actually not crazy. And then he started to look a bit pained And he said, Oh, the band in the Rotunda is playing and they're out of tune. So I said, what are they wearing? And he said, Oh, they've got red coats and gold buttons. And so I went to the museum, of course, and checked it out. And that's exactly what they used to, they used to come down on the paddle steamers to Sorrento. And the band had come and played in the Rotunda at the Four Shore there and, and he was spot on. So, little things like that, just people on my tour saying things and I'd go, wow, it's just incredible. Because Sorrento is one of the first places that was settled. In Port Phillip. Correct. It was actually the very first settlement in Victoria. So it settled, except they didn't stay. So they came in 1803 to Sorrento and they only lasted nine months because we don't have any drinking water. There's not many trees for building things and our soil is really sandy. So. They got up and went to Tasmania and they didn't come back till 1835. So really Sorrento can boast in Victoria the very first magistrate's court, first post office, first wedding, first birth, all those sort of things. Yeah, so it is, it's very historical. And around that area I know that the National Trust property, Macrae, That has significant history of First Nations people being documented in that area as well. So, have you ever come across, you know, ghosts of First Nations people or anything along that line? Yes, and I'm really embarrassed to say that when I first started the tours, I'd been to the museum and there wasn't a lot documented about the Bunurong tribe. And what was documented was that they were treated really well by First Nations people. The white people when they arrived. So when I did my tours, I used to talk about the Bunurong tribe, but I'd say, Oh yeah, but they've been treated really well. And there was one spot in the Sorrento park where you'd always get hit on the back of the head. Like I never got hit on the back of the head, but some people that are sensitive, they go, geez, someone's just smacked me on the back of the head. Or someone else would go, Oh, my neck's killing me. You know, so they were picking up how the indigenous were actually treated. This smacking on the back of the head went on probably for a couple of years. And then I read this book that came out and it said that when they first landed in 1803, they were swapping spears for guns and things, the white people in the Bunurong tribe, and a gun accidentally went off and injured one of the indigenous. Someone came on my tour and the guy that had been smacking everyone on the back of the head was actually Indigenous, and apparently he'd been killed, according to the people on my tour, by a white person had smacked him with a plank of wood and killed him. I could never find that in the museum, it wasn't documented, however, it kind of makes sense. So once I got to that point and I'd say, I'm really sorry that you got hit on the back of the head, and what happened to you? No one ever got hit again. So that was interesting as well. And there is an area that I go up and just recently, I think I found a tree that's all women's business tree, where it's got a lot of beautiful, indigenous women, business type tree. And a lot of people that are very in tune have been drawn to this tree and said, it's very spiritual and it's very special. Even though I don't think the tree would have been there because. A lot of the limestone burners took out every tree on the peninsula to do their limestone burning. However, in saying that, it could have just been the area that was very sacred. And so sometimes we do go under the tree, but I have to just think about whether the group I'm taking around is welcome under the tree. And then my monitors will tell me, sometimes I'll ask whether are we welcome and the monitor will go no, so I don't take people under the tree. But sometimes the monitors say yes. Then we'll go under the tree. And have you spoken to anyone of the Boomerang, you know, clan to let them know what you've experienced there? No. And in fact, I've met a few but no, I have not talked about it because I'm very conscious too that we're not supposed to take photos of people. Indigenous people as well. So sometimes when we get up there, no, I haven't, but I should, that would be actually really interesting, but I don't know how it would be. Yeah, I probably should actually. Yeah, just, just having a conversation and then, you know, whether they're privy to any of that information or can help you out, you know, but the fact that it's consistent behaviour that you've been noticing over a period of time, it may be of interest to them. Yes, absolutely. It probably is actually. Yeah, maybe when I shut down all. Let them know that that's up there and have a look and see how they feel. And so tell me about this book that you were referencing earlier that changed your, your feelings. Couldn't have said anything because I didn't write down where I got it from. No, that's okay. We can add it to the show notes later. But obviously it was quite significant. Yes, it was. I would have written it down in my notes somewhere. I've got loads and loads of notes from all my research and things, but And tell me about those notes. Did you start taking your diary notes from the very first Yes, and not deliberately. It's just that I had must have had a few people like Jeremy that came on the tour was saying, Oh, there's a guy there with a top hat. So I just go home and write it all down before I forgot it. So I get home and I just spend 5 minutes just writing down what had happened on the tour and also next to people's names and their phone numbers. I'd write down what happened on the tour. just for my own interest more than anything. And that itself is really a record of something that is historical in its own right. True, and I probably haven't done it for the last five years because I'm so used to it now. You know when something becomes the new norm? Yeah, yeah. Well, not everyone has that sort of level of new norm that you're talking about, Jenny. That's true. So tell me, like, what sort of areas Well, I've cleared the energy a little bit in a lot of them. So apparently that happens when Ghost Tours run in particular areas. So it was the Masonic Lodge in Sorrento that all the cameras used to drain. They don't anymore. And they probably didn't after maybe the first year of tours. So I was quite busy the first year because I was enthusiastic and it was my job. And my marketing is shocking. And I went back to work the second year. So. The first few years were probably when I was really doing a lot of tours. So within a year, yeah, the camera stopped draining. People come on your tours and if there's someone really upset on your tour, they will move them on. They don't tell you they're going to do it, but then you get there, you get to your next tour and that person or that ghost is missing. And you think, damn it, someone has come and moved them through to the light. So when I talk about that, and I'm sorry if I'm incorrect because this is all word of mouth from people I've met, so it's not actual science, it's what I've learnt from other people. Apparently, when someone dies and they don't know that they're dead, so say they've been hit by a car or, you know. under a cart or whatever, that's when they're a ghost and they're always there. So they're a bit stuck. I also have spirits on my tour, which are people that have lived there. And as I say their names, because I know someone's seen them there, they will come down for a quick visit. So they're not regular when I start talking to them. Sometimes they'll come and say hello, sometimes they won't. Depends on their mood, or I don't know what it depends on, but they don't always come down. It's my ghosts that, uh, people tend to move on. I did have a little girl who had a lot of people get really, really upset when they came across this little girl. She was abducted in the late 1800s. And I did find her name in the Serenno Museum as well. In fact, there was an abductor that abducted quite a few girls. And after about three years, someone said to me you probably should move her on. I didn't do it myself, I got someone in and said can you please move her through to the light because she was still with her abductor and it was really, really sad. So, she's gone. But she'll come down every now and again and say, just to say thank you, which is really nice. She'll pop up, her name's Clara Parker, and she'll come down and I'll say, Clara, are you there? And I'll say, are you with your mum now? And she's with her mum, where she wasn't with her mum previously. Are you happy? Yeah, I'm happy. So it's, it's lovely. And when you say you get someone to come and do it for you, do they have a stronger connection or more advanced skills or what do they do that you've witnessed? Well, I didn't actually see them do it. The proof was probably in the pudding more in that Clara wasn't there the next tour. And then about six months later, she was back again and I needed a redoing again. So it took a few goes, but no, the lady that first came out with all the clairvoyance, she knew someone that's very good at moving people through to the lot. Apparently they did it from their own house. They don't even come out to Sorrento to do it. They just call her in. So they'd say, Clara, come in. And then somehow they, everyone's different. But my mum's told me that you can sort of just push, push, push. But see, that's where I don't understand because I haven't learned how, that's just what they told me. You just push, but I am sure there's more to it than that. As I said, I'm no expert and have never gone to any classes or anything. And that's the thing, because like, how do you learn this? It seems like that you can become more sensitive and more receptive of time moves on if you're exposed to it. But yeah, like, is there a school that you can go to? There is. Yeah, there's lots of them, yeah. And sometimes, what's the one in, the Mystic Dragon, I think, at Seaford, maybe? They come down and do my tour, so, she runs a group, and she brings her clients down to me once a year, and they book a tour and they practice there. I don't actually do anything, it's my easiest tour, I just enjoy watching them. And they come down and they practice. We just walk around and I'll go, I think something's here. They'll all hover around and then they'll come up with whatever they've seen. And, you know, I'll say, yeah, you're correct. And the leader who's the, or the teacher, she's pretty in tune too. So she'll go, yeah, well done. Yeah, so it's really interesting. And because you have that historical record, you are in a position to say yes or no. I never say no because I can't see what they're seeing. So just because I can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. But that's where I would write it down then go and see if I can find any evidence. And that's the frustrating thing. It's rare to find I found some things at the start, but it is pretty hard to actually put things together because you don't get exact dates or times or, you know, someone might say like there's a guy that was killed at the corner of the Sorrento Park and someone got his name the year he died and he said he was buried at the Dramana Cemetery. Now, I went down to the Dramama Cemetery looking for him and I didn't find him. But I had a lovely day down at the cemetery anyway, trying to find him. So it is a little frustrating that I get really excited. I mean, I'm going to find this one and I don't always. Well, I'm glad that I'm not the only one that finds going to a cemetery is entertainment. Oh, yeah. Isn't it fascinating? Oh, from historical, you know, value. It's amazing. Yeah, I agree. I'm quite drawn to them too. And I did take my monitors down to the Sorrento Cemetery and got no action. And I figure that's because if I died, I wouldn't hang around at the cemetery, I'd be hanging around at my kid's houses, or the poor kid's, or, you know, at the theatre or wherever I like to go, I'd be hanging out. And what have you found the characteristics of where you do find, you know, the most sort of sightings or experiences? What is the common thing that you've seen down there? The common thing is actually the people that come on the tour. So, if you've got a group, the best groups are when you've got three or four different groups that don't know each other, but they're all really into it. They're all positive. They're not going, Oh, you're a nutcase. That's when the ghosts just come out and it can be fan, it can be just fantastic. And they're all picking. One of the ladies, those six people that came out, can see things that have happened on the environment. So she explained it like a hologram. So she can see things that have happened that were good and bad, like people waiting for the tram line. She saw a couple of women up on the tram line, but they're no longer here, but she just sees bits of history, like glimpses, I guess. But she could also see how people were murdered. So she found about four or five spots where there were murders. And they're all going, oh yeah, I can feel that, I can feel like this person's been stabbed. So, on my tour we stop at those places and I say, now just think about whether it's male or female, how your body's feeling. And some people get sore guts, some people get sore around the neck. So, some people can actually pick up how other people work. Murdered. So that is always interesting. So if I've got four different groups out, but they're all really in tune, the murder scenes are actually fascinating because someone will pick it up and like, they'll all go, that's unbelievable. And some of them don't even know that they've got that gift and it actually freaks them out a bit that they've gone, Oh my goodness, I've got three So that's probably, I know that hasn't answered your question totally, but it's, More about the people on the tour, I think, than the areas. So, what about the Conti? It's just had a renovation, it's looking very swish. Tell me about the history there. What have you experienced? I used to go there. So, when I first started doing the tours, my plan was to go and do the Continental. But unfortunately, the lady that was running it said it's not actually safe to wander around inside. So all my tours from outside the buildings, but I have discovered once you talk about people while you're outside the building, they'll come out. So George Koppen, I don't know whether you've heard of him. He's sort of called the father of Sorrento. He haunted the Conti. I've been back since the renovation. They've done a beautiful job, but I haven't been in there looking for George. I probably should go and see if he's still hanging around, but he was a really naughty ghost in there. He used to shut people in the pantry while they were getting. Stuff out. They said when they were making cocktails, they'd turn away to get another ingredient and someone had turned the machine on. You'd go to the toilet, someone had turned the lights out. So he was a really naughty ghost. But so he definitely was hanging around there, but he would come out and have a chat too when I started the tours. But once they started the renovations, we couldn't get close and I've changed my tour a bit because it was going too long. So I had to cut it down a little bit. But I know when the bank got, there's a bank, their national bank, when they renovated that a lot of people got kept getting pushed down the stairs. So the ghosts that were in the bank weren't happy about the, the renovation. But I haven't talked to anyone that was doing that at the Conti. So I don't know what's going on with all the ghosts. So it feels like they have the ability to communicate with you in some way, even though they're sort of stuck here, they can still communicate. With your experience, and I'm only asking about your own personal experience, how would you describe the different sort of realms? You've touched on it a little bit, but is it energy, do you feel, or? Yeah. Scientists would actually say it's just a ball of energy, and that would be what they'd say. I don't know. But apparently they can exist in, so you might have two or three ghosts in the one area, but they're not all in the same realm. And I don't understand that. And I, because I haven't gone to go to do any study, that would be something that would be really interesting for you to interview someone that actually does all that study to find out more than what I, I know about it. But you've actually seen that personally, that you've recorded people citing I suppose different eras. Different eras, definitely. Different ways of seeing ghosts. I had a guy on my tour about two months ago that just sees shoes, and he'll see shoes walking down. Oh wow. Yeah, I know, and see, after 14 years, I've never heard of that before. So people see things, some people just see I think I had someone that just saw a head. I've had people that see fairies. People that see aliens. I've had people that see ghosts. Yeah, it's just extraordinary what people actually see. People that have seen death auras, people that see orbs. Can you explain death auras and orbs for us? Well, I don't know much about the death auras. I just know she just said that if she sees a certain colour around someone, then she knows that they're not going to be in the world much longer. Yeah, right. And I said, have I got one of those? She said, no, you're good. She said, but that's a really awful thing to have. She said that she wishes she didn't have that. The orbs are an interesting one, because they see, because you can pick up orbs on cameras, but you've got to make sure you're not looking, you've probably seen one, if you, you know, you focus your camera at a light, you can sometimes get an orb, or if there's dust particles, you can get orbs. Sometimes on my tours, we've actually seen the orbs through the camera lens, and they've been bouncing around. And then I'll say, if I hold the camera, you won't see the orb. And I'll hold the camera and the orb will disappear. And then when whoever owns the camera gets the camera back, the orb will come back. It's sort of bizarre. People just see things so differently, but they know something's there. Yeah, I remember visiting Port Arthur, and there's a particular cottage in Port Arthur with a rocking chair, where they do have a selection of photographs of people that have taken them, and it shows different orbs and different specks of light, and, but it's always around this particular rocking chair, and that really stays with me. Yes, I've had lots of those photos, and the beauty of, of course, mobile phones now, they can show you straight away. And I've had photos of a big indigenous face on the side of a rubbish bin. It was extraordinary. And I think it's the guy that got hit at the back of the head. And then when we got to the end of the tour and they went to give it to me, the photo had actually just disappeared. And sometimes when people take photos at the end of the tour, they'll go to a semi one and they'll go, where's it gone? And they're, Someone has mucked up all the order of the photos. So they're not even in the order of the tour. And I do think that is a gift. Now that's not something I've read anywhere, but I think apart from, I think if you can take ghost photos, that's an actual gift. Like being a clairvoyant in, you know, an empath or being a different, a different way. Black shadows is another thing. You get some black shadows sometimes of an outline of people. They're always a bit spooky. I always feel they're a bit scary, but I don't know. See, that's where I'm not educated. I probably should find out. It might not be scary. It might be just the way that person takes photos. Yeah, no, it's really, it's so fascinating. Just this, this change Transcribed In you and the documentation and the fact that, you know, obviously it's been over a 14 year period that you've experienced this. That's a huge wealth of information, of anecdotal information to have recorded during that period. It is. I've often thought I should write a little coffee book. you know, coffee table book and just, except I haven't taken any good, well I've got some good photos actually, but yes. Like it's an amazing resource. What does it tell you about life as we live it now? The afterlife? After recording all of these experiences, what's your thoughts? My thoughts are there's definitely more than what just goes on here. Definitely we're being looked after most of the time by someone or Spirit guides or whatever, because you know, a lot of people have told me stories about just the other day, someone was telling me that their three year old was standing under a sign. and the kid suddenly got pushed forward by nothing, nothing there. The kid just fell forward and then the sign fell down. So it was like someone had pushed the child out of the way. There's definitely more going on. I think a lot of my ghosts choose to come back and say hello. I have heard people say that they'll talk, say to their dad for years. And then once the dad, their dad thinks they're okay, then they won't ever see them again. So sometimes they'll just hang around until they're ready. I've been told that there are people, like with my dad when he passed away, that he'll be wherever he is because he's got a few lessons to learn before he comes back. So he's up there learning whatever that is, whatever that is at the moment. So yeah, I don't know. And some people say you get reborn. Some people say, you know, say with my children, that I could have been connected to them in a past life, possibly. So I've met people that can see past lives. Yeah, it's just amazing. So are we reborn? Do we just keep coming back? Maybe. There's always been that portrayal of good and bad. Do you see that in what you've Witnessed, or what the stories that have been told to you. Do you feel that there is a good and a bad, or a good and an evil, or? Yeah, unfortunately I do. I'm very lucky on my ghost tour, because I did children's tours for a bit, and I've got one bad ghost, the abductor, comes out. And, because people feel things. Often, when I have a child on the tour, they'll go, Oh, my left hand's really cold. What does that mean? And he used to lead them off. Apparently he'd hold their hands and lead them off to abduct them. So he's my only evil one. And I mean, everyone's safe from him now. Cause I was worried about that. Apparently we're totally safe. I do a cleanse now, well I did right from the start. Cause the clairvoyant said, you must do a cleanse at the end of the tour. They've suggested I do a cleanse at the start of the tour too, but I quite like people feeling. feeling everything and they're also at the start of the tour they're not always convinced there's something out there but by the end of the tour most people want to do the cleanse because they've felt something. And what is the cleanse Jenny? The cleanse is the way I do it which I've been taught to do is you surround yourself by a white light and the idea is it's like stepping into an eggshell and you just Cleanse yourself from any of the entities that have come past. I always say, thank you so much for coming out today, but I'd love you to stay in Sorrento, not come home with me. And then you can brush yourself down. So we do that. And look, most ghosts, because they're, they're just like you or me, if I said, can you just go away? Please. You would go away. It's the ones that are hanging on us that you just need to be a little bit careful with. It's really rare you pick one up from a ghost tour apparently. But I did have a priest come on the tour that said if you say in the name of Jesus Christ, leave me alone, that works. And I do do that with that evil one. Once we've had enough of him, I'll say in the name of Jesus Christ, just leave us alone. And that's been very effective. So I don't know what that, I don't understand that either, but it's, it's effective. And what do you think? It's sort of told you about life. Do you live life differently? What's been the impact of running these tours for you? I definitely am different. I'm definitely far more Interested in people. I mean I've heard so many ghost stories now You know, and I, I actually still don't mind hearing people's ghost stories, but I'm far more interested in things I don't know about, like the UFOs or the fairies or the past lives and all that stuff that doesn't come up a lot on my ghost tours, but I kind of eat that up bow and go, Oh, that's so, that's so interesting. And the indigenous too, like I'm far more interested in their spirituality. That's probably something that I've had a real growth in. I think. People's pain from the past, I've had to learn not to feel it because apparently I am an empath and I can now listen and be empathetic without feeling everything, which is really good. I've had to work on that. I've learned a lot. I love history. I can't get enough of history, but I've always been a bit like that anyway. I don't think I live my life any differently. I think people expect more from me, like particularly my good friends that have had people pass away, they're hoping that I'll be some sort of channel. Sometimes I can be and sometimes I'm not, so that's hard to be, perform, if that makes sense. And has it had made you more curious? Definitely. Less judgmental perhaps? Yeah, definitely less judgmental. If someone has like a problem, it could be deeper than what we can just see. Because it could be coming from, hush, anywhere, not just what's just happened to them. It could be past trauma, it could be, you know, it could be anything. And do you feel that some locations retain good energy, bad energy? Yep, definitely. I think I can walk now into a house and feel energy a little bit better. Because my mum used to walk in and say, oh, don't like it here. I'd go, it's fine, it's fine. And I'm still not like her. But I can walk in and she can go, I don't like it here and I can still go, I know, I don't mind it. But sometimes I walk in and go, I don't like it. Sometimes I'm going for a walk on the back beach here. Oh, there's a couple of little tracks I always go down every now and again. I'll I'll walk. Here, something in the back of my mind, no not today, don't go that way, and I turn around and I'll go the other way. I've done on the ghost tours too, where I've just had this feeling that we're not supposed to go in a particular way, so I'll change it up. So I listen to my instincts a lot more than I ever did. And do you think that is something that's innate in us, but we forget to listen to? Yeah, and I think probably everyone has it. And I know what I was like when I was younger. I would go, I'm being stupid. And I'd dash back in and do whatever I was going to do. I wouldn't listen to that warning at all. Whereas now I'm very conscious of listening to the warnings. Because you know, they, they talk about the old gut instinct and how it's connected to that primitive part of the brain. Yeah, well I had a really interesting experience too one night with a girlfriend in Port Melbourne. We'd actually just done a hypnotherapy course together and we were walking across a road at Port Melbourne. I said to her out of the blue, I could hear something, she heard nothing. I said run, just run. And she, luckily she just fired my instinct. Well, my direction, which I can't believe she, cause I mean, if someone said to me, run, I'd go, why? But she just ran and a car came and smashed into the light pole. And she said, how'd you know to say run? There was no noise. But I said, I heard a car going too fast. She goes, no, there was no, there was no sound. So maybe, you know, someone was protecting us. And fortunately she ran when I said run and we both, you know, Here to tell the tale. Well, I think that sounds like it's good advice that perhaps we should all listen to our gut feelings and those little voices in the back of our heads sometimes and be open and curious. Yeah, and it is so much fun being open and curious. It opens up a whole new world, really. Yeah, it certainly sounds like it has for you. And something that's been documented for 14 years of repeated behavior that is constantly seen and repeated. Yeah, and people seeing the same ghosts and describing them the same way. Yeah, it's amazing. Absolutely fascinating, Jenny. Do you have anything else that you'd like to share with us at all? No, I think I've talked a lot. No, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for giving us such an insight to, you know, one of us might go to a one time, but to actually speak to you about what you've seen over such a long period of time is just fascinating. So, thank you so much. It's my pleasure. Thank you, Catherine. 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